First feed of New BP - Questions about how much to feed

[sueleoash]

Hi Everyone,

We got a BP from a breeder about 3 weeks ago. He's male about three years old and very, very sweet (and I didn't even know I liked snakes!).

He was raised on mice (about 2-3) per feeding about every two weeks. I wasn't crazy about feeding him live and from everything I've read and heard thought it would safer and healthier for the snake to do F/T and also to do one rat rather then 2-3 small mice.

So, a few days ago I got a F/T rat and thawed him out in warm water and tried to give it to him. No dice. Finally, I was concerned that our snake was starving so today we went and got two live mice for him

It was a bit traumatic for me since I love all animals but I just kept reminding myself that it was food for my great snake and nothing more. I just fed him both live mice and he struck and swallowed both of them in nothing flat.

I am very excited and comforted that he ate. He's now in his warm side hide digesting as I type this.

So, now for the questions and thank you for your patience. Do I continue with the mice, feeding him 2 about every other week or should I buy a rat next time and just try and feed that to him? The rat will have to be much bigger than the mice. I'm concerned because he's never had rat before.

Will I do harm to our snake by keeping him on mice and feeding him multiple rather than one big meal? Thanks everyone for reading and responding to this.

This is a great website! It has been very helpful to read all the stickies and threads. From someone who knew absolutely nothing about keeping snakes I now have been through a successful shed and my first feeding and also was able to set up my tank properly (I hope).

[xdeus]

Welcome to the forum!

To answer your questions, Balls are imprint feeders and typically stick to one type of meal all of their lives. Of course there are exceptions and you may get him to change if you work with him, but he might be more finicky if you change his diet.

Your best option would be to continue feeding him 2 live mice every other week as that is what he's used to. He will do just fine all of his life with that schedule. If you want to switch him to rats or to F/T it may take a little work, but it should be possible. The key is to go gradually instead of trying to get him to eat F/T rats right away. So either try to get him on F/T mice or live rats, but not both at the same time.

If you want to get him on F/T mice, try feeding him one live mouse and then offer him a pre-killed mouse right after using tongs. If he takes that, then you can try offering him pre-killed mice on tongs after a couple successful feeding attempts. After he is used to eating pre-killed off of tongs, then try F/T.

If you want to get him on rats, try adding a little bit of soiled mouse bedding about 20 minutes before introducing a live rat. The rat should be about the size of a mouse or a little larger. Eventually you can work you way up to a small or weaned rat which is about twice the size of an adult mouse.

Oh, and one more thing... if you're feeding him two mice, let him consume one completely before offering the second one. This will reduce the chance of him getting bit or spooked by the one that isn't being eaten.

Good luck!

[kavmon]

ditto on the above post!



and " Will I do harm to our snake by keeping him on mice and feeding him multiple rather than one big meal? Thanks everyone for reading and responding to this."


nope not at all.



vaughn

[sueleoash]

Thank you both, that's reassuring and thanks for the tips on getting him on to rats and/or F/T!

[Stewart_Reptiles]

First welcome and congrats on your new BP

While I understand that someone can have difficulties to feed live prey to a snake you need to be prepared to have to do so in the event your BP does not switch, some just won't.

Now when it comes to switching you need to take it one step at the time. Either switch to live rat first and than F/T rat or switch to F/T mice first and than F/T rat.

One thing I would recommend is for you to keep feeding live mice for at least 2 to 3 more feeding before attempting to switch to another type of prey.

Once he ate 3 to 4 meals successfully for you (1 meal a week)

You can try to switch to live rat and I would recommend 1 to 2 rat pups (rather then a small rat at first), if successful, feed live rats for 3 to 4 feedings before attempting to switch to F/T.

Or you can switch to F/T mice, if successful feed F/T mice for 3 to 4 feedings before trying to switch to F/T rats.

[sueleoash]

Thanks Deborah. I think for now I will stick with live, mice. It was so much easier than the F/T. I took one mouse by the tail with some hemostats put it in front of the snake and wham he struck, squeezed and then eventualy swallowed it. I then waited a few minutes and did the same thing with the second mouse. So, I will definitely do 3 or 4 more feedings this way until I decide to change or not (because of price or snake health or both!)

[frankykeno]

Sue it is best and safest for your snake to not restrain the mouse at all. Simply put the mouse in the enclosure as far away from your snake as possible. That gives your snake time to set up it's strike properly. The mouse may stay still or wander over to the snake (captive bred rodents have almost no idea what a predator is). The snake may go to the mouse or stay in an ambush position and wait it out. This is all normal prey/predator behaviour.

When you restrain a living prey item you can make it frantic. A frantic rodent is more dangerous to your snake and far more likely to bite the first thing it sees.

If it helps you feel better about this very natural process remember snakes were designed by nature to eat rodents, rodents are part of a very well designed food chain. You are really just a cog in a wheel dear that's been turning long before you were born and will continue to turn long after we're all dust. As well, the act of constriction by a snake is likely one of the quickest and most humane deaths. It is not suffocation, it's the almost immediate stopping of heart function (much like a human dropping dead of a massive heart attack without warning).

It's not always easy to feed live, but if you do so with respect to both predator and prey and knowledge of how to do it safely as well as understanding of the snake/rodent relationship...it will be fine.

[sueleoash]

I had no idea. I read somewhere that I should hold the mouse so that it can't attack my snake. What you say makes sense though. So, when I feed next time and I put the mouse in the tank how do I ensure that the mouse doesn't bite our snake or am I interfering in something that doesn't need interference i.e. the snake will take care of the mouse....

[dotc0m]

Well from what I've heard, mice teeth are usually harmless and not strong enough to puncture skin or leave marks (unless you leave them in there for a long time of course). Rats on the other hand may be a different story.

If you are worried about your BP being harmed, just have something long laying around, maybe a hemostat (I use a chopstick) and when the strike occurs, a bad one at that, and you notice the prey's mouth/head is free and in defense mode, you can use your tool to aid the mouse into biting the object rather than the snakes skin. Don't be afraid of rolling the snake over to expose the mouse's free head because the snake would be in a trance and won't even notice it.

I've been feeding live and have encountered no problems. Do take seriously Joanna's thoughts as they are very true. It is nature's way and we are just there to aid them, not by regulating how they feed, but to make sure they do feed in a way that is most beneficial to them.

[dr del]

Well from what I've heard, mice teeth are usually harmless and not strong enough to puncture skin or leave marks (unless you leave them in there for a long time of course). Rats on the other hand may be a different story.

Hi,

Actually this depends on the developmental stage of the prey item.

Full grown mice have dentition entirely capable of causing serious damage to a predator where a simliar sized rat is at a far earlier stage of development. It is still capable of biting effectively however so please do not think I mean it is not.

At the end of the day the chances of injury are more reliant on your feeding regime than the prey item itself based on all I have read on this forum.

We have members who feed many different types and sizes of prey to their animals each week after all and a good understanding of what may be appropriately sized or aged for your particular snake can avoid a lot of problems.

As always all animals are individuals and while Dotc0m is entirely correct that during the constriction period most snakes will be indifferent to interference if you are carefull about it there will be the odd one who will not be and adjustments will have to be made.

And yes Joanna's Ideas are, as always, bang on


dr del