Green Feces

[steve_skinner]

I picked up this little ball the evening of June 5 from a chain store. On around June 10, he defecated and it was runny and green, but the urates were fine (no discoloring of them, nor were they runny when I found them). On June 18, during a soak, he defecated again and it was green also. This one was well-formed however. None of them have smelled.

Husbandry
Temps: 93.4 warm, 81.7 cool
Humidity: Averages approx. 50% (I'm in Reno, its nearly impossible to keep it super consistent with such arid conditions here so I mist daily).
Everything is measured digitally.
He's in a 28qt. Sterilite on aspen w/ tupperware hides and plastic water dish. There's also a rock (the size of my palm) so he can rub for shedding.

I've tried frozen/thawed pink mice and fuzzy mice. I tried on 6/6 with a pink mouse, tried 6/12 wth a fuzzy mouse and 6/19 with a fuzzy mouse. No reaction to any of them.

Around between 6/12 and 6/13 he went into blue and cleared over. He has still yet to shed. I attached some pics so you can all get a visual.

June 6




June 20






Is green and/or runny stool a sign of parasites? Is it digested bile (its more bright green)? No one at the store he was at has a clue what he was eating.

[elevatethis]

First of all, there's a good chance that he's NEVER eaten and he was brought in as a CH import.

That being said, they are not too difficult to get started under the right conditions.

First of all, a 28qt container is HUGE for a hatchling...15 qt max, 8-10 qt is ideal. They need tight spaces when they are small to feel safe.

Second, a lot of hatchlings won't go on to f/t right away. Try a live hopper sized mouse and stay away from mouse pinks in the future...they are more or less a worthless prey item even for a baby ball python.

I wouldn't focus too much on the stool until he gets some real food in him.

Also...keep handling to a minimum. Matter of fact, I wouldn't hold him at all until you see him eat - I know that's hard to do with a new pet - but he's not going to eat unless he feels safe and stress-free.

[steve_skinner]

Not handling him isn't much of a problem, I'd rather have a healthy animal than a cuddly pet - we have plenty of pets to cuddle. As for the enclosure, I appreciate the advice and I'll pop him into one of our small boxes. Should I hold out another week before trying to feed him live?

[SatanicIntention]

Hatchlings really need to be started on live to kickstart that feeding response and get them happy about eating. Then you can try to switch over to f/t after a few consecutive feedings and the little guy is gaining weight.

Right now, the main thing he needs is nutrition, and trying to start a baby ball that hasn't ever had a meal, on f/t, is going to be like keeping butter from melting in south Florida. I would rather get that baby eating and looking better, than try to force the dead prey onto it(that it doesn't recognize as food).

Try a small live hopper mouse at night. Pre-Scent the room for about 20-30 minutes, then drop the mouse in on the opposite end of the tub and leave the snake alone with it for 20 minutes or so.

First thing though, I'd stick him in a small 6qt shoebox with a hide and a water bowl, keep him nice and warm, wait a week and then try feeding.

[steve_skinner]

Thanks for the responses guys and gals.

He's now in one of our plastic shoe-boxes. It's one of the dark, non-translucent ones. He's got his water on one end, hide on the other. Its in the 28qt over the UTH. I'll make sure to get the temps up to par, but I imagine its a pain in the ass to get a gradient in a plastic shoe-box.

I really appreciate the feeding questions. My snake experience is limited and my hatchling experience is non-existent. If you all have any more suggestions, throw them my way. I'm fully open to sound advice.

[steve_skinner]

Super bad news.

He drowned himself this evening while I was at work. My girlfriend opened his tub at about 8 to see him star-gazing. She came back at 9 with a friend to show him and he was head-under in his water bowl. He let out a couple bubbles (last breath) and gave a tail flick and he was gone. He had a vet appointment for 8:50 am tomorrow and even pooped this evening (or released his bowels upon deceasing). My girlfriend is obviously distraut after walking in on such a display and I'm rather unnerved myself. I'll be the first one in the store we got him at in the morning, dead snake in hand.

I don't know that I'd recommend leaving them fully alone every week until they feed much anymore.

[bearhart]

Dang. That was awful.

I have often wondered about some of the "leave them alone" recommendations. My theory is that some balls are much less prone to getting all stressed out than others. Also, there have been some times when a good intentioned "throw a towel over the cage and don't disturb it for three weeks", if taken too literally, could be dangerous for a snake in potential trouble.

That being said, he was in a bad place and he could have drown with almost constant supervision. Possibly, he could have died from something else entirely while in the water dish. And, had you been supervising him, he may not have drown but instead died in the night.

I think you did all you could and I don't think anybody here told you anything really wrong. Just bad luck man. With a super-young snake like that I don't even know if you would be in the right blaming the seller unless they told you something clearly false such as "he's started on pinkies and eating well".

[Evan Jamison]

I'm sorry to hear he didn't make it . You were correct on the bile, and that is a sign that he was severely dehydrated as well as having an empty stomach for a long time (probably since his yolk). If he was star-gazing, he may have drowned because of central nervous system problems, and couldn't control himself well enough to pull his head out. If he had IBD, he was going to die anyway. You should sterilize everything you have used for housing that guy in, and I wouldn't buy another snake from that shop. If you decide to try keeping another baby BP, I recommend buying a CB baby from a breeder. IBD and other major health problems are relatively common in chain stores and their animal wholesalers.

-Evan

[steve_skinner]

I am new to my area and got the word on this shop AFTER I bought the snake. A local breeder I've been in touch with dubbed them a "torture chamber for reptiles". The snake did seem to be suffering neurologically especially the past couple days.
Thanks for the sentiments.
His tub and water bowl are gone, I don't trust plastic enough to keep it around and it's only $10 worth of supplies.

I am not giving up on balls though. We've got a show we're going to in September and I'm looking at picking up 1.1 yearling CB pastels. I figure a year or two of practicing perfect husbandry and we'll see if we can't hook them up.

To everyone else, have fun with your animals, I enjoy reading this forum. I'll be lurking.

[bearhart]

There is an exotics store right across the street from the one I frequent that I really don't like. I don't think they are as bad as the one you went into but they are bad. One day I went in there and almost every snake in there had shed clinging onto them, including a whole bunch of BP babies . Then another day I went in there to get a feeder mouse and they were out up front. The guy took me back to their big bins in the back to pick on out and I was not impressed with the cleanliness level at all and I noticed alot of the mice had dirty, matted fur. After that, I quit going there. It really sucks but, amazingly, it seems like this kind of thing is very common. I wonder, why get into the animal trade if you can't be bothered with their well being? Is there really that much money in it?