How can a cage be too big???

[dr del]

I get flamed for giving "vet advice" yet others do it.

Speaking as the person responsible for this the reason was because the advice you offered was actually dangerous and could easily have lead to extreme complications or the death of the snake involved.
This is a little different than recomending a procedure routinely recomended and carried out on snakes.
I also didn't really consider I was flaming you but I can see how you may have felt that.

I've pointed out that my vet has made some very good arguments to me for not doing an initial culture as well as using oral Baytril. Does anybody here even acknowledge that?

I did? I told you why the big breeders get cultures done. On the oral baytril front I have had both prescribed over the years and can definately say the injections worked faster but after a second course the oral did seem to clear things up.

One thing that they pointed out was that there was not conclusive evidence that oral Baytril does not work, and that they had positive experiences with it.

I think it does work - eventually. It took an extra course in my experience and, personally, I want to try and cure the infections as quickly as possible if I can. I can also assure you giving oral medication to a ball python is a lot harder than giving it injections - mine was considerably less than co-operative.

They also pointed out that there are some significant side effects to injections which include risk of necrosis in the muscle tissue as well as increased pain for the animal (which is certiainly true).

I think those are far more likely if the injections are incorrectly administered. As for the pain it is fleeting and I would rather that than double the time of suffering the infection. I admit the above is only my personal feelings on the matter however.

In addition, they provided me with a nice long printout from a vet's forum on the issue to back it up. Anybody here mention any of this stuff? No. I got things like "Injections are the only way to go." etc. Who's flaming those people for giving vet advice?????

Could you ask them if it would be ok to share it with us as I'm sure many of our members would like to read it?

No one is flaming them because that is the standard vetinary advice and , having been used for many years by many people, is extremely unlikely to cause the animal to experience any negative effects.

I don't abuse my snake and my cage is, by now, almost entirely in line with what's recommended here.

We may have stumbled onto another factor - I didn't know that. I've only ever seen the arguing side and never the post where you said "ok I agree and will do that"

Now what's the "almost" bit?

Part of the problem though is that this site is dual purpose. On one hand it is a troubleshooting site and on the other it is a place for enthusiasts to share experiences and debate. Likewise, legal liabilities ensure that an MD can't do much more than regurgitate the currently accepted "correct" advice to you during a patient visit yet the history of medical research that provided that information is long and rich and involves experimentations, failures, debates, upsets, you name it. For the safety of the patient, these are kept very separate. On BP.net they live side-by-side.

Intresting point - I hadn't really though of the site as divided like that at all.

On the regurgitation of accepted correct advice, yes that's a good starting point and to do anything else would be grossly irresponsible as it could lead to suffering and possible death of another. It's not really a legal thing - more a moral thing for me. I will happily pass on wierd things that have worked for me in the past but only if I know that , even if they don't help, they certainly won't hurt.

It might make it easier to point out that experiments rely on analysis of the results informed by an understanding of baseline results and usually using a control group.

Now hurry up and finish 1.07 so I can resume my other addiction.


dr del