I Swear I'm Getting to Hate Mice!

[frankykeno]

Okay yet once again I've failed miserably at breeding mice for our mouse eating ball pythons. One group never bred well, the other group was females I bought preggo. They ate their dang babies on me! I ended up being totally disgusted and feeding them all off so I'm back to the weekly trudge to the pet store to pick through their feeder mice.

I'm determined though to get this right. I've always had an easy time of it with the rats so this is really bugging my hiney. I think part of it is I'm treating mice like rats and that may be causing these problems.

So my new plan is to buy just albino mice. I swear those fancy ones didn't know how to breed, they just sat around, ate and looked pretty! I need about 10 to 12 adult feeder mice per week plus freezing a few litters at the young adult size for Emi the milksnake who only takes f/t. The mice must live in the same room as the rats as there's no where else for them. It can be a fairly high traffic area as I tend the rats daily. I've been using small glass tanks for the mice and do provide them with hides and lots of ripped up telephone book pages to scurry around under.

So I'm thinking to put the mice in those dark heavy plastic cement tubs (will make my own fine mesh lids of course). Bill mentioned that they do well in a less exposed enclosure. Now how do I get water to them. The little mouse water bottle spigot could be fed through a small hole in the side but will the little boogerheads enlarge that hole and get loose? If I do a couple of these tubs (one for the breeders, one for growing out) and just tuck them away in the furthest corner of the room will that be less stressful for mice? Should I be feeding enough food for a whole week so I have less interaction with them? The rats seem to like me checking on them daily, the mice just go..."omg it's the human! quick eat a baby or something!!!!"

I'm thinking to buy 1 adult male mouse and 6 adult female mice and setting them up in one of those cement tubs. Will that be okay or way too many? I figure if they still eat babies I'd get at least some for feeders. I've also heard that 1:6 or 1:8 seems a good ratio for mice.

I cannot believe how difficult mice are compared to rats!

[SarahMB]

I'm right there with ya, Jo! I've never bred rats, but the mice are frustrating me to no end.

I do have mine in dark enclosures with a mesh opening on top. Right now I have 3 different tubs with 3 different arrangements of mice in them, as an experiment to see if I can get *any* breeding done. Out of 5 recent litters, I have 2 tubs with one baby each left alive, and one tub with 2 babies in it. GAH!!!!!

I do have water bottles on the tubs, only once did I have a mouse try to chew around the hole. We put packing tape around the hole, and no one has bothered it since then.

[monk90222]

I am not such a fan of mice either...I have my colony set up as 1.3. I use 10 gallon tanks, all lined up on a shelf. I feed them once a week (an 8oz deli cup, filled with lab blocks). That food lasts them the whole week...I don't open the cages unless cleaning them. I also only leave the male in for a few days then feed them off..(This keeps the smell down). I have had sucess in the past with this formula...good luck!!

[lord jackel]

A couple of ideas.


Get younger mice and raise them up so they get used to you. I give my new mouse breeders to my daughter for the first couple of months. She gets them out every other day or so and lets them crawl around on her hands, shoulders, etc. This gives them a chance to interact and become used to people, they eat well and just enjoy.

Then I put them into a 10gal with 3 sides covered (makes the corners real dark) - introduce a male for about a week and then remove him...so far I have had zero deaths and the mice will let me stick my hand in their cage, touch their babies, etc (no difference then my rats)

Not to mention when my daughter checks on them they will actually leave their litters and climb up on her hand.

I think like Balls, mice get really stressed so you have to associate with them first.

Just an idea.

[frankykeno]

I did try that Sean with the first group of fancy mice. Darn things were hand tame, pretty much more interested in me than in making babies! I replaced the male thinking maybe he was a dud. They did then get preggers from the new male. I saw a big nest of maybe 20 pinks from 3 females. Next day or two...3 darn pinks left! Then later...they killed the daddy! So I waited a week or so. Put in a new male...found him dead and tossed in the corner the next morning! Rotten female mice. My two enclosures if numbers count were 1:3 and 0:2 (plus the unsexed snacks they ate ).

So I figure okay, no more handling so much. I get the two obviously pregger female mice from the pet store. I stay completely hands off with them. They have 11 babies between them. All seems well, the babies are old enough to be getting furred. Everything seems nifty keen. Then poof...babies start disappearing...one day it's down to one fat mouse...no babies...no other adult female!

Now there is no bloody way those mice are hungry or under nourished. I make my own mouse mix for the darn things just like I do for my rats and it's top quality stuff and not cheap either. They have a full fresh water bottle too. The rats thrive under my care, these mouse....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[lord jackel]

hhhmmmmmmmmm....that is so strange. I am not sure why some they are doing that. Sorry Joanna...I have no other ideas hopefully someone else that is having success will chime in

[JLC]

Is it possible that they smell or otherwise sense the rats nearby and feel threatened by them? You'd think mice would be an endangered species the way they seem so afraid to actually raise up any whole litters if the least little thing goes wrong in their environment.

[frankykeno]

Whose knows Jude. You would think they things need Prozac in their water bottles the way they freak over the littlest things! Well I'm hoping to keep them as far from the rats as possible and maybe the dark tubs will do the trick. They sure seem to work with others that have tons of mice breeding in racks. I need to go visit Kara with you and Robin and learn the mysterious "Path Of The Mice" I think. LOL

[Rapture]

When I had mice I kept a 1.2 trio in a 2.5 gallon aquarium with screen lid. This size is comparable to the lab containers. I provided them with water and fed them lab block right on their bedding. I usually didn't have any problems with losing babies... I never handled them other than cleaning.

Maybe you will have better luck with a whole new group. Also, maybe you could look into the lab breeding tubs? I think they are designed for 1.2 groups.

[Wild Bill]

The albino lab mice are by far the best breeders I have. I also have successful sets of "fancy" mice, but they have smaller litters on average. I run 1.5 per tub with mice and leave the male in with them, he seems to help with the babies etc. So 1.6 or 1.8 should be fine in larger tubs. My breeder tubs are large cat litter pans, but I have had success with the black concrete tubs. I know some people say the females will get pregnant right away again, but with over 650 breeder females I can tell you that is not a common occurence here. I have found that the mice seem to do a little better with the higher protein lab blocks, I was using Mazuri 6F with 16% protein and my litters started going down. I just recently switched to a product made by Kent that is 23% and my litters have gone back up again. I still use the Mazuri for my rats. I personally just use a water bottle for my mice and just have the nozzle sticking down into the tubs through the wire. I also only open their tubs once a week to clean and leave them alone the rest of the time.


If you need any pics of my setup or anything Jo just let me know.