wood enclosure, partial pine? AH!

[evelyn]

Hello all! new to posting, but have been reading non-stop for quite some time!

My husband built a beautiful cage with woods that we had in our garage, but unfourtantely we did not know of the toxic effects of PINE.....well aware of cedar. Parts of the cage have pine (i.e. the back panel and a portion of the lid).

We got our new home all set up, two hides, water bowl, temp, humidity, you name it, it's done....and bam! I read about pine....

We went to Walmart and got a Rubbermaid container asap and got our baby out of there!

My question is not about keeping my bp in there....no es bueno for our bp, we know....but I was wondering, is there a paint or laquer that i can apply so that we can use it in the future for bp to come?

Also, I researched to see if it would be harmful for other reptiles, such as lizards....but have come up with out results saying nay or yea....

Thanks so much for all the help and opinions!

[jhall1468]

Since Pine and Cedar can cause respiratory problems I wouldn't trust a lacquer to fix it. As for other reptiles, as far as I know only snakes have issues with cedar and some types of pine.

[evelyn]

Thanks for the speedy response!

[jhall1468]

Thanks for the speedy response!

No prob ... We have some serious woodworkers on the forum and perhaps they can help solve your problem better than I.

[heatherhead42]

How disappointing for you!

I can't help you much with your specific problem, but I will say that I wouldn't trust pine with any small animal until further research has been done. It has been shown to be toxic to mice and snakes due to the high level of volatile chemicals in pine. As for cedar--I wouldn't put it within ten feet of any animal in an enclosed space. The oils in cedar are far more potent even than in pine, and have been a known insecticide for centuries--anything that kills insects just by breathing it can't be good for the respiratory system in a small animal living in an enclosed space.

Now, as for pine--I know there are ways of treating it to prevent its toxic effects. But I don't know whether any of them will work without disassembling the enclosure--for instance, I know there are heat treatments that dry up the fumes.

Good luck--I hope someone chimes in who can help.

Heather

[evelyn]

Thanks Heather!

Disassembling would not be a problem, I'd rather be safe than sorry anyhow!


Evelyn

[heatherhead42]

Hi Evelyn,

I'm not sure what a heat treatment consists of, but I've asked your question on a mouse forum as well, where a number of folks have quite a lot of knowledge of materials and toxicity in mice. I suspect that if there's a way to make it safe for mice, it will also be safe for snakes.

To be honest, there is some debate as to whether pine is, in fact, as toxic as is claimed. I have not gone to the studies to decide for myself as I've had no pressing reason to do so, but it might be worth your time if it means you end up being able to use the enclosure as-is.

The arguments I've heard in favor of pine (including from one woman who keeps all her dozens of mice on pine and has had them live as long as three years--which is an extraordinarily old age for a mouse) say that the studies showing its toxicity are flawed and that *any* bedding used under the conditions in the studies would show basically the same results--it's just that no other bedding, except cedar, has been tested that way. These same folks urge concerned consumers to go to the original studies and read them.

As for cedar--its pungent odor and insecticidal qualities are enough to keep me from wanting to use it on any small pet, regardless of what the studies do or don't say about it.

But pine--I'm not as convinced. Granted, I'm convinced enough that I don't use it in my small animal enclosures. But in your position, I'd probably go to the trouble to research it in more depth.

Good luck in any event, and I'll let you know what I hear from the mouse forum post.

Heather

[junko]

I agree with Heather.

I used to breed and show guinea pigs. Cedar was frowned upon for the reasons we all know. KILN DRIED pine shavings are fine. I bedded all my animals for years on kiln dried pine and they thrived. Now raw pine, with it's piny fragrance (quite strong actually) can be just as bad as cedar.

Guess what? The pine used to build things is all kiln dried!

If you're still concerned, I would think a couple of coats of a good latex paint should seal the wood... but if it's nice wood I would hate to do that...

[heatherhead42]

Junko's response is basically what I am hearing on the mouse forum as well. So if it were me, I'd go with it!

It had not occurred to me that wood used in building would already be kiln dried, but now that you say it, I realize it has to be.

Good luck,

Heather

[evelyn]

Thanks guys! You rock!

I'll look into some more myself, just because I'm inquisitve in nature....but thanks so much for researching too!

Evelyn