I'm new at this; any pointers?

[spiffturk]

Hi, everyone-- I'm kinda new here. Both to the forum and snake owning. I got Dr. Jones at an expo last week:
https://all3vil.org/gallery/rebel/jones

She is reportedly captive-bred, about a year old, and was eating well (which they all say, apparently). She hasn't eaten in her new home yet, but I'm not overly worried--in part because she's new and still acclimating, and in part because she's been in shed mode pretty much since I got her. She shed either last night or this morning and it came off in two pieces: one little scrap about an inch or so long and then all the rest of it, and she looks quite good (no retained spectacles that I can tell). This is her setup:
https://all3vil.org/gallery/rebel/snakesetup

Temps are a bit low at the moment, judging from what I've read here (though on par with this sheet's recommendations: http://www.anapsid.org/ball.html). The cool side is currently 77-point-something (though the sensor is stuck to the glass, so I suspect the air temperature is a little bit higher) and the warm side is just over 90. I kept the humidity around 65-70% once I noticed she was looking cloudy, and now I'm trying to keep it around 50%. I've covered three sides with black foam-core board, and given the mesh lid the foil-and-duct-tape treatment.

One thing that marginally concerns me is that, while the air seems a bit cooler than recommended, the surface temperature according to my infrared thermometer is a bit over 100. It certainly doesn't feel hot (just mildly warm), and I can't be 100% certain of the thermometer's accuracy, but should I worry about this? This is why I have the one hide nearer the middle of the terrarium-- I wasn't sure if it would be safe to put it directly on top of the UTH. The substrate is a couple things. Newspaper directly over the glass and astroturf-type stuff just over that. I was hoping the newspaper would help to lessen the direct heat of the pad-- is this a good approach, or would you guys recommend something different? I'm also using a CHE near the middle of the tank to try to warm the whole air mass a bit-- it seemed like leaving it on just the warm side would be way too hot on the one side and almost frigid on the cool side. The pile of grassy stuff is sphagnum moss I was using to help keep the humidity up. Should I maybe abandon these things and just go with aspen or coconut husk?

One last thing-- at the expo she was the most active snake in the tub and seemed to take a keen interest in myself and my friends, and she was pretty actively checking out her new digs when I brought her home, but for the last few days she's been very reclusively hiding. She still hasn't had a quiet week alone yet-- I've been trying to get her home up to par, involving changes and putting her in tub while I worked on it.

So basically, anything glaringly wrong with what I'm doing? I'm trying my best to make her as healthy and happy as possible, so any suggestions would be great. Any additions/changes I should make to her home? Rearrangements, more hides, different substrate, anything like that? Should I do it ASAP or after I've left her alone for a while? When and how should I try to feed her (thus far she's been uninterested in thawed mice in her cage, with or without dangling)?

Thanks for reading this long post. From what I've seen, you're a great bunch of people who really care about helping newcomers like myself. Thanks for any advice you can offer.

--
Will

[Sadie]

Hi Will, welcome and congrats on the new friend!

I think you need two more things:

A dimmer or thermometer to control the UTH: The surface temp of the UTH is important- it shouldn't be higher than 95 (IMHO). Over 100 can cause neurological problems long term. If you think about it, anything that feels warm to you to warmer than body temp (>98.6).

A higher watt- or second bulb/CHE: The heat from the UTH does not warm the air very well. Since you're using a CHE and still not getting the temps you need, you'll need to add to it. Or heat the room more.

You should measure underneath the substrate and above- the first so that it isn't too hot, and the second so that it's hot enough. Check under the hide because it will conduct and trap the heat. You could also experiment with a different substrate.

Oh and that tank seems quite big for a baby- I'd throw in a couple extra hides and maybe fake greenery or something to make him more secure. This is more important if he won't eat.

Don't worry about feeding him for another week. The more you try, the more you stress him out. Get the temps right and then leave him alone for a while. It won't hurt him to miss a couple meals. And make sure that you're feeding him the same as what he was eating before (if you know).
Keep us updated!

[frankykeno]

All I'll add to the excellent previous post is a couple of quick suggestions. That green reptile type carpet can be very difficult to work with. It's hard to get it really clean of feces and urine/urates and it can let a lot of nasty bacteria grow so you might want to go with aspen or even plain newspaper/papertowels (never choose pine or any substrate with cedar in it).

Lights tend to suck the humidity out of any enclosure and when you are dealing with a larger, glass/mesh lid enclosure that just makes the situation a bit tougher to deal with.

It is a large enclosure so extra hides will help the snake feel safer. Identical hides also help the snake so it doesn't choose it's favorite hide over it's real need to thermoregulate properly. You can also add in a lot of newspaper balls (just loosely crushed). This certainly doesn't look pretty but it is a proven trick to get a new snake to settle in nicely. Once the snake is eating and settled in you just very slowly remove a bit of newspaper each week.

Remember that even good changes are stressful to your snake so it will need extra time to properly settle in once you are all done tweaking the enclosure.

[spiffturk]

Hi Will, welcome and congrats on the new friend!

I think you need two more things:

A dimmer or thermometer to control the UTH: The surface temp of the UTH is important- it shouldn't be higher than 95 (IMHO). Over 100 can cause neurological problems long term. If you think about it, anything that feels warm to you to warmer than body temp (>98.6).

I actually have the CHE and the UTH on a thermostat, with the sensor in the warmest floor space in the tank. The thermostat is the cheaper one that doesn't have numerical settings--just a dial. But with three thermometers in the tank, I don't think that's terribly problematic. I've been to a handful of stores looking for a lamp dimmer for the UTH, but so far I've been unsuccessful. I guess I'll add one to my next amazon order. The CHE already has a dimmer.

A higher watt- or second bulb/CHE: The heat from the UTH does not warm the air very well. Since you're using a CHE and still not getting the temps you need, you'll need to add to it. Or heat the room more.

Well, I think my ambient temperatures are OK now. 92-93 on the warm side, just under 80 with the sensor stuck to the glass. Adding another lamp or CHE would really cause problems with humidity-- It's actually a bit of a problem already with just the one. If I don't mist every twelve hours or so, it gets down to about 39%. Would it be a good idea to give her a humid hide with some wet moss in it rather than trying to keep the whole tank humid?

Oh and that tank seems quite big for a baby- I'd throw in a couple extra hides and maybe fake greenery or something to make him more secure. This is more important if he won't eat.

I've been meaning to get around to throwing some PVC pipes together to give her something to climb on, but haven't had the chance just yet. She's about 2 feet long at the moment, so she's not tiny, but yeah, some extra scenery might not be a bad idea.

In the last day or two, she seems to be getting a bit more comfortable with her home-- she's been leaving her hide and going exploring once it gets dark.

Just now, though, she was doing something really odd. I stopped by to mist her tank and found her with her front end raised up high enough that she could wedge a few inches of her head/neck between the lid and the upper lip of the tank, while the rest of her hung down. I stared at her for 30 seconds or so and she wasn't moving (but she was breathing) so I gently opened the lid and she kinda thudded back down to the bottom of the tank and waited for me to go away and then went back to her hide. I suppose she was trying to get out, but it was weird to see her in that position, kind of contorted and not moving (though she might have gone back to moving if I'd left her alone). I'm thinking I might ought to get some sturdier clips for the lid

Thanks for the input, and I'll update if anything else noteworthy should happen.

--
Will

[Weber58]

I'm kind of having the same problem you are with using a heat lamp/CHE. My solution to this is to spend the money and pick up some flexwatt and a nice thermostat. I'm finally ordering mine tomorrow. Yeah, bp's love to explore, so my guess is that she is feeling pretty good about her surroundings if she is moving around now. I would suggest getting one of those critter cage tops if you dont already have one. They have two built in clips in the back and a place for a lock in the front. Instead of a lock I just slide a golf tee in the holes and it works great. Good luck and keep us posted with anything new!

[Sadie]

Glad to hear you've got the temps figured out. Yes a lamp or CHE will kill the humidity but the temps are more important (IMHO). A moist hide is a good idea, especially around shed time. Misting is ok on a regular basis, it just doesn't last long. You can soak her as well during a shed. Some substrates hold moisture better.

Your ball may be trying to get out, they sometimes rub their noses at the top of the cage if they are unhappy with some aspect of the home. I notice it more in mine if they don't have hides, so I assume it is usually a security issue. Normal balls will explore but not constantly try to get out. I would just keep an eye on her for now, until she adjusts. Those PVC pipes you were talking about might help.

[rabernet]

Hi Will! Looks like you got some good advice above. I just wanted to say hi, as a "neighbor" of yours. I took the liberty of looking through your photo album that you linked through and saw some familiar landscape (Piedmont Park).


Nice to have another Georgian join the group!

[spiffturk]

[Warning: overly long and somewhat anxiety-ridden post below]

Well, I tried feeding her again last night (after a week of no touching--just cage maintenance). She passed up another thawed mouse. I decided it might be a good idea to start monitoring her weight to make sure she's not losing-- she currently weighs ~192 grams. She's reportedly about a year old and is little less than 2 feet long. Does this sound like a reasonable weight for starting off?

Also, are there any particular techniques to getting her to eat a frozen/thawed mouse? I thaw it in warm water (in a baggie) then hold it under warmer water to make it a bit more attractive. I've tried to minimize annoying her by just dropping it in and leaving it as long as over night, then tossing it in the morning. I'm thinking that the next time I try to feed her I'll wait until she comes out of her hide to go exploring (which she generally does a few minutes after I turn the lights off at night) and try dangling it in front of her. Any other suggestions? How long should I wait before trying again?

I've only had her two weeks, and only really left her alone the last one week (prior to that, I took her out a couple times before I read it wasn't a good idea, plus taking her out for some cage overhauling). So I suspect I probably shouldn't be worried yet, but I'd feel a lot better if she ate just once. She was, according to the breeder, eating f/t weekly; though I didn't think to ask his method. How important is the size of it, as far as getting them to eat initially? What I have look like they might be a bit small for what she can handle, but I wouldn't really expect that to be a big problem.

And as far as housing goes, the temps seem about right (though I still need a dimmer for the heating mat). Humidity stays on the low side, but she doesn't like the sound of the spray bottle-- I'll try to make her a moist hide when I can. She has two hides, though I bought them before reading they should be identical. The one on the warm side has a hole on either side of it, but I've placed it so that one hole is facing a covered side of the tank. The other has only one opening. Prior to shedding, she stayed in the one with two holes, near the warm side, but since shedding she's always been in the one on the cool side. She stays in there just poking her head out until I turn off the lights for the night, at which point she goes exploring, then back to the cool hide again. Does this sound like I need to worry about making them the same?

Thanks for reading and any advice you might have. I was partially rambling and I apologize. I just want her to be healthy and happy. I've not yet dropped in the wads of newspaper, so I suspect I should try that when I get home.

By the by, my apologies if this thread should be in the husbandry forum instead of this one-- Mods, please move it if that's the case.

--
Will

[spiffturk]

Small update: I got another hide for her that matches the one she likes on the cool side. I've put it on the warm side and put the oddball in the middle of the tank. I've also bought a couple of 4-inch PVC pipe caps that I'll cut some holes in, so she'll have a total of five hides to choose from (perhaps overkill, but as was pointed out earlier, there's a lot of empty space in there and I should probably try to cut down on that).

--
Will

[dr del]

Hi,


Sounds like your getting things set up fine and the above advice does cover most things you will need to bear in mind.

They can occasionally take a while to settle in ( each snake can be different to the others) and everytime you change the cage they might need to start the settling in process all over again Keeping a track of her weight is a good idea but its a good guide to take a deep breath before every panic attack balls pythons can cause .

On ocasion they seem to actually take a great deal of pleasure in doing something that makes you go "what?!?!".

Talking to the guy you got her from is a good idea to find out his feeding method - plus he might have a lot of tips he has found usefull in the past.


dr del