IBD Coverage

[bchapman]

How common is IBD in new snakes? I have had people tell me that it isn't very likely to get it from a good breeder - but I have had other people tell me that like 75% of snakes that we buy will have IBD??

I was under the impression that IBD was nearly always fatal to boas and always fatal to pythons?

Clue me in

[ladywhipple02]

There is so little known about IBD itself. There is some debate whether or not IBD is actually fatal or, because it's a retrovirus, if IBD isn't the killer but weakens the immune system of a snake so terribly that it dies from something like a cold.


That being said, it's possible for a snake with inclusion bodies (the sign of IBD) to be perfectly healthy on the outside. Most people never test their snakes for inclusion bodies until they begin getting sick and can't find a reason. So, are the inclusion bodies the culprit or do they just show up in most cases of death?

Can some snakes be in a collection with inclusion bodies (namely IBD) and be asymptomatic? Sure. Boas can have it for a long time... perhaps their incubation time is longer or maybe they just don't get sick as easily. Or maybe some boas have a natural immunity to it, while, when a python without the immunity is exposed to a boa with the retrovirus, they get sick and die.

IBD is scary. It can wipe out entire collections... entire breeding facilities. If a breeder is suspected of having IBD within his facility, very few would be tempted to buy from him at all. So, I'll put this to you... if a breeder catches the IBD early, and only a few snakes are lost, do you think he's going to announce to the world that he has had an outbreak within his facility and possibly lost his business because of that? Some would... most definately. But there are certainly others that would not.

I've been reading a lot about this lately on many different forums... a guy who's going through losing most of his collection to IBD posted quite a few references on the retrovirus and I've read through a couple. Like I said... a lot of stuff is still guesswork. They just don't know that much about it yet... even how its spread. So, are inclusion bodies (IBD) themselves harmful? Or do many snakes have them and survive just fine living with them, and only a few who get sick (and these few only get tested for IBD when they get sick, and, therefore, IBD gets blamed)? Again

Sorry for the long post. I find this subject interesting and disturbing, all at the same time.

[bchapman]

There is so little known about IBD itself. There is some debate whether or not IBD is actually fatal or, because it's a retrovirus, if IBD isn't the killer but weakens the immune system of a snake so terribly that it dies from something like a cold.


That being said, it's possible for a snake with inclusion bodies (the sign of IBD) to be perfectly healthy on the outside. Most people never test their snakes for inclusion bodies until they begin getting sick and can't find a reason. So, are the inclusion bodies the culprit or do they just show up in most cases of death?

Can some snakes be in a collection with inclusion bodies (namely IBD) and be asymptomatic? Sure. Boas can have it for a long time... perhaps their incubation time is longer or maybe they just don't get sick as easily. Or maybe some boas have a natural immunity to it, while, when a python without the immunity is exposed to a boa with the retrovirus, they get sick and die.

IBD is scary. It can wipe out entire collections... entire breeding facilities. If a breeder is suspected of having IBD within his facility, very few would be tempted to buy from him at all. So, I'll put this to you... if a breeder catches the IBD early, and only a few snakes are lost, do you think he's going to announce to the world that he has had an outbreak within his facility and possibly lost his business because of that? Some would... most definately. But there are certainly others that would not.

I've been reading a lot about this lately on many different forums... a guy who's going through losing most of his collection to IBD posted quite a few references on the retrovirus and I've read through a couple. Like I said... a lot of stuff is still guesswork. They just don't know that much about it yet... even how its spread. So, are inclusion bodies (IBD) themselves harmful? Or do many snakes have them and survive just fine living with them, and only a few who get sick (and these few only get tested for IBD when they get sick, and, therefore, IBD gets blamed)? Again

Sorry for the long post. I find this subject interesting and disturbing, all at the same time.

Hey thanks for that, it was very helpful. Yeah I know who you are talking about.. Tomorrow is the day he is putting many of his snakes to sleep

Is there a definitive way to test for it? Bianca is barely two months old.. Julius is probably about 4 months old.. is there a way to test for it?

[bchapman]

Hey thanks for that, it was very helpful. Yeah I know who you are talking about.. Tomorrow is the day he is putting many of his snakes to sleep

Is there a definitive way to test for it? Bianca is barely two months old.. Julius is probably about 4 months old.. is there a way to test for it?

Anyone know?

[wolfy-hound]

There is a blood test that can prove they have it, but not rule it out.
There is liver biopsy that can prove they have it, but not rule it out.
There is BRAIN biopsy, which means killing the snake that CAN rule it out. Of course then it is a moot point, as the snake is dead anyway.
Wolfy

[bchapman]

okay.. well that stinks

[bchapman]

sorry to double post, but is it true that if you buy a snake - it is more likely to have IBD than not to have it?

[ladywhipple02]

Doubt it, but no one knows, dude. Goes back to that whole discussion of whether snakes can live with IBD or not. If they can, the chances are greater that more snakes have it. If they can't, probably not, because all the ones that do have it die off.

[rabernet]

IBD is a swift killer in pythons - I believe that once infected, ball pythons would succumb to the IBD within a matter of weeks.

If it's "true" that most snakes have it, then you would expect that none of us would be able to keep our BP's alive long enough to build our collections.

[wolfy-hound]

true, I have yet to find ANY confirmed case of IBD in a ball python that the snake lived longer than 3 monthes. 3 monthes was with vet support, long after *I* would have put it down.
The vets at UF said that a ball python could carry it for years with no signs. When I pressed to get a number of snakes they had seen do that, she couldn't come up with ANY cases of ball pythons, only boas. Yet she insisted that they COULD. I replied that I COULD catch a grand piano with one hand and balance it on my ear, but it wasn't very darned likely.
Wolfy