Recessive Genetics - Het Percentages

[frankykeno]

Noticed a few het questions lately so I thought it might be a good idea to review a bit on recessive genetics and the het percentages that come from those breedings. It's also good for Mike and I to review so we know we have this basics of genetics down pat going into our first breeding season. So let me know if this is correct please.

I'll use our 100% het for albino male BP, Malachi, as my example here.

If we bred Malachi to a normal female we would get 50% possible het for albino offspring (no chance for albino offspring). The possible hets would have to be raised and bred to prove them out as 100% hets or normals.

If we bred Malachi to a 100% het for albino female we would get 66% possible het for albino offspring (with a 1 in 4 chance for a homozygous aka visible albino offspring). Again only raising them up and breeding them would prove which did or did not get the genetics for albino.

If we bred Malachi to an albino female we would get a 2 in 4 chance for albino's and all normal appearing offspring would be 100% het for albino. No need to wait, you know they are hets.

We do not have one but just to round out the recessive thing. A homozygous albino bred to a normal produces all 100% het for albino offspring (the breeding that in fact produced Malachi). Same as above, they are 100% hets without question.

Of course all estimates on the number of homozygous offspring in any given clutch are just that...estimates. It's always a roll of the genetic dice. We fully realize that nothing is guaranteed that way unless both male and female homozygous.

My last question is when it comes to how one properly refers to 50% and 66% hets. I've seen them called just that as well as "66% possible hets". Does it matter which term is used or is one preferred over the other?

[SnakeySnakeSnake]

My last question is when it comes to how one properly refers to 50% and 66% hets. I've seen them called just that as well as "66% possible hets". Does it matter which term is used or is one preferred over the other?

Well to be 100% accurate a 50% and 60% arent het, so possible would be an ideal term, but then again, a snake cant be 50% het, it is either a het or not het, 0% or 100%, so sometimes it is omitted.


Thats the part that is hard for new people to wrap their heads around. This snake that is 50% het, isnt 50% het, it is either 0% or 100%(is or isn't). But the odds of it possibly being a (100%) het are 50%


I would say 50% possible het.

it has a chance of being a het, 50%

[Adam_Wysocki]

My last question is when it comes to how one properly refers to 50% and 66% hets. I've seen them called just that as well as "66% possible hets". Does it matter which term is used or is one preferred over the other?

Yes, it matters a lot.

50% and 66% are numbers that denote the statistical probability that the normal appearing snake is a het. In a het x het breeding the normal appearing offspring each have a 16% greater chance of being het than the normal appearing offspring from a het x normal breeding. When you're calculating odds of producing homozygous offspring from breeding possible hets, the odds matter a lot ... at least to me they do.

-adam

[xdeus]

Yes, it matters a lot.

50% and 66% are numbers that denote the statistical probability that the normal appearing snake is a het. In a het x het breeding the normal appearing offspring each have a 16% greater chance of being het than the normal appearing offspring from a het x normal breeding. When you're calculating odds of producing homozygous offspring from breeding possible hets, the odds matter a lot ... at least to me they do.

-adam

Um... Adam? I think Jo was referring to the term "possible" as opposed to those that don't use the term. Then again, what do I know?

[Adam_Wysocki]

Um... Adam? I think Jo was referring to the term "possible" as opposed to those that don't use the term. Then again, what do I know?

Oh ... wow ... didn't get that at all ... well in that case I say ...

Doesn't matter.



LMAO!

-adam

[frankykeno]

LOL that is what I was asking Adam. Just the wording really. Just for when we breed this year and we'll be keeping all the females back of course but seeking homes for the males. I want to make sure if I call them 50% possible hets for albino or 50% hets for albino I'm using the right words (okay so I'm anal about this stuff but we want to start off right). The males really will just be for pets but Mike and I still want to represent them correctly to their new owners.

[Mendel's Balls]

I think the wording does matter "50% possible het" /"66% possible het" are terms that make sense.....a 50% het is a nonsensical term since you are ethier het or not.....by putting one word in there "possible" .....you convey the probability that the organism is heterozygous.

When I first started reading about ball pythons my gf used the term 50% het and it confused me...I was like "heterozgous" is a state, you cant be half-way het.....as soon as I realized that this was short for 50% possible het it made sense to me.

[Adam_Wysocki]

I think the wording does matter "50% possible het" /"66% possible het" are terms that make sense.....a 50% het is a nonsensical term since you are ethier het or not.....by putting one word in there "possible" .....you convey the probability that the organism is heterozygous.

When I first started reading about ball pythons my gf used the term 50% het and it confused me...I was like "heterozgous" is a state, you cant be half-way het.....as soon as I realized that this was short for 50% possible het it made sense to me.

So I guess short hand is lost on you?

There are "technical terms" and "trade terms" or "common language" .... people that have been around understand the "lingo" of the trade ... people new to the hobby certainly do get confused.

-adam

[Mendel's Balls]

So I guess short hand is lost on you?

There are "technical terms" and "trade terms" or "common language" .... people that have been around understand the "lingo" of the trade ... people new to the hobby certainly do get confused.

-adam

Short hand is good and biology is full of TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms)...like DNA and RNA that stand for something.....

Personally, I dont think much more effort is needed to utter the word "possible" in there......I just think it's a bit lazy....once you know what it means that's fine....it certainly is confusing if someone doesnt tell you what they mean though.....

I also think it's more truthful to say "50% possible het".....someone who doesnt know genetics might not realize heterozygous is a state.

[Adam_Wysocki]

I just think it's a bit lazy.

And some people might think that statement is judgmental and arrogant.

...once you know what it means that's fine....it certainly is confusing if someone doesnt tell you what they mean though.....

Not every seller feels the need to be an educator. Some people are just breeding and having fun and selling their animals to people that "know what it means".

I also think it's more truthful to say "50% possible het".....someone who doesnt know genetics might not realize heterozygous is a state.

More truthful? Come on now. Technically, it would be more truthful to say "heterozygous" instead of het, but this hobby and industry has common practices that people are just used to.

When you buy a car, a car salesman might say to you "It's got a 305" ... 305 what? ... Is he not being truthful? Did he mean a 305 stitch floor mat? Of course he didn't. He was using language that is common to the industry ... just like saying 50% het albino vs. 50% possible het albino is common to the industry.

I could see your point if the shortcut was being used in a book, technical paper, or some type of material used to educate, but the original jist of the thread was how to use the terminology when selling ... and I as someone that has been breeding and selling ball pythons for 10+ years, I stand by my original statement.... it doesn't matter.

-adam