Feeders Remorse???

[frankykeno]

You know Chris I wondered if I'd have problems with feeding off rats as I have had them in the past as pets (pre-snake days). At first it was a bit odd but then I made some decisions that make me feel fine about it. Just my mindset of course, so don't take it as gospel LOL.


The breeding colony rats each have names, they live very well in the best way I know how to not only let them breed well but also to thrive as animals in my care. I'm not doing it the most cost effective way but it's still reasonable that way and I found the balance of what works for me and for my colony breeders. I also won't be feeding off my good breeders as they age out. They will just go hang out and retire. That may seem silly but it's my own little thank you for their contribution to my snake's well being.

The feeders also are kept as best I can...no overcrowding and tons of good eats and clean bedding. Stuff to play in (tubes etc). I can't give them a long life but I can know that I provided them a good life while they existed. For me that makes it okay as I know rats live pretty tough wild so these captive feeder rats have a pretty fine life albeit a short one. They however are never given a name or handled more than necessary (they all get a once a week physical checkover when I do my population count). I know that their ending in a snake's tub will be extremely fast and clean so they won't suffer unduly.

For me, Chris, I know what I can do for the rats and what for my morals I feel is right so that helps not feel badly. I also always remember I'm a meat eater to and sometimes I doubt the pig that provided our porkchops for tonight was treated half as decent as my breeder/feeder rat colony.

Hope this helps a bit.

[jglass38]

I also always remember I'm a meat eater to and sometimes I doubt the pig that provided our porkchops for tonight was treated half as decent as my breeder/feeder rat colony.

Hope this helps a bit.

You can bet that the animals we eat will never be treated even a fraction as well as that! It all makes sense when you put it like that...

[cassandra]

I'm not breeding feeders yet but I plan to when we have a bigger home. While I totally sympathize with you, I feel really lucky that I don't think I'll experience the same. Growing up on a farm, raising rabbits, chickens and turkeys which we personally slaughtered to put food on our table and helping neighbors slaughter and dress pigs and deer, I appreciate and respect the life the animal is giving (albeit unwantedly) so that I can eat and enjoy food.

I'm also fascinated by the anatomy of the animals; I remember being completely fascinated by the anatomy of the rabbits we slaughtered and dress and certainly looked forward to eating them. =)

I think we named them all and certainly the buck, who was coal black and named Calcutta, who was never eaten and lived a long life, eventually retiring to live in our house.

But take heart: you are caring properly for your feeder animals, who have a good life and a quick death and very happy snakes to get tasty good food. =)

[frankykeno]

I think another point to consider is this. No matter whether you feed live, pre-killed or frozen/thawed to your snakes, you are really nothing more than a cog in a very ancient wheel. Just a part of the predator/prey dynamic that's been going on long before any of us existed and will do so long after we all gone. You aren't doing anything Chris that isn't natural and right at least in my mind. Where you'd be wrong was if you didn't care about the rats well being. If you treated them poorly or disrespectfully or even with cruelty as I've seen some folks post (not here thank goodness) and you obviously do care.

It's probably partly because most of us have lived a very antiseptic city life where we don't think about our dinner walking around mooing or oinking, that we're a bit disconnected from the natural order of things. For me, growing up around hunters I'm comfortable with the way of things....predators eat prey...as it should be. We're just predators that managed to figure out how to get our prey neatly packaged in the meat department.

Feeding live though isn't for everybody and that's just fine too. Whatever works best for you and for the snakes is what in the end is best (at least in my lil ole opinion for what that's worth ).

[cueball]

Thank you all very much! I do feel much better not being alone and having hope for the future


I feed them Mazuri, seeds and hard fruit. I provide them with an aspen and pine bedding mixture. Their water is fresh with a splash of vanilla. They are cooled naturally from an underground cooler flowing cool air around them. I handle them with leather gloves so neither party gets too jumpy. Though when it comes time to feed them off I just want to let them go in the woods.

Time and yalls support will heal me!

[cassandra]

I feed them Mazuri, seeds and hard fruit. I provide them with an aspen and pine bedding mixture. Their water is fresh with a splash of vanilla. They are cooled naturally from an underground cooler flowing cool air around them. I handle them with leather gloves so neither party gets too jumpy. Though when it comes time to feed them off I just want to let them go in the woods.

If only I could live so well! =D

[elevatethis]

Good point in this thread so far...I used to feel that way a little...got over it with time. Honestly, these snakes are incredibly efficient killers and from what I've observed, any physical pain or suffering incurred appears to be minimal. During feeding, from inside the tub in the rack I'll hear a quick thump, a small squeal, and thats it. I really think the small squeal is more out of suprise than out of pain.

[adizziedoll]

Honestly, these snakes are incredibly efficient killers and from what I've observed, any physical pain or suffering incurred appears to be minimal. During feeding, from inside the tub in the rack I'll hear a quick thump, a small squeal, and thats it. I really think the small squeal is more out of suprise than out of pain.

Well, I dont want to start something here, but i would have to disagree a little. I've seen some rats struggling for their lives for minutes, just trying to breathe. Bones are broken, airways are restricted, and the bite itself it probably painful enough. I guess the word minimal is throwing me off. Again, I dont really want to start anything

[Bdadawg]

I also was raised on a farm. I had to slaughter and butcher pretty much everything. Chickens, turkeys, pigs, rabbits, and ducks. At 14 I wasnt strong enough to do a cow by myself so wed hire someone to do them. Add to that prey that I used to hunt ... pheasants, ducks, chuckar, deer, grouse, and rabbits.


The only time I feel a ping is when I have to put down some of my breeders. All the breeders have been named ... and my nephews name a few babies that we keep as breeders. They understand that all rodents and rabbits will at some point become reptile or raptor food (my nephews are now raised on the same farm I grew up on). I normally euthanize the breeders when my wife isnt around ... she knows they will be food ... just doesnt like to see them go down.

If you name your breeders and do have a hard time then putting them down at a later point, you can always trade them to a fellow herper. Sometimes just the process of you not having to feed them off can set your mind at ease.

Bryan

[4Khan]

Everyone here makes wonderful points.

I swore I wouldnt own any type of rodents or rabbits anymore. I do not like the smell and my boyfriend just flat out dislikes all animals except Khan our male BP.
We assumed Khan was a f/t eater when we got him but we soon found out he wasnt. we had to feed him live. The first mouse we put in the cage was no problem. to me mice are ugly and to jumpy. Then the the next time we fed him I heard the rat (we feed him a big old one that night) made the saddest squeal I have ever heard. from then on I had to plug my ears each feed since i was afraid of that sad noise. Then we bought Lola who was also used to live rats. Her first feeding was supposed to be this little weanling. She didnt take it so I was stuck with this adorbale rat who i felt so bad for since he was so much still a baby. he would curl up on my chest and fall asleep for hours! I named him Fernando! Well about a week later he died (to young i guess) and I now had a hole in my heart. So the sucker i am I went and bought two female rats. One regular beige rat and then one black dumbo rat.
They live well and I give them plenty of attention. I didnt think I would get into rats but my girls are like little stinky people to me.

The hard part is we have a male albino rat who was "back up" incase lola wouldt take the f/t rat we bought. well she did and now i have this male that I dunno what to do with. Since its to large for khan and lola will hopefully stick to f/t this guys life is prolonged. I try not to handel him much since I know i'll get attatched but its hard. He is way more docile than my females and he is even softer. (my girls are rexs). I did name him mr. morimoto but call him whitey for short. that right there opens a whole new can of worms. I know I shouldnt name him but....oh well.

My advice is to think of it as part of a never ending cycle that is almost out of your hands. Its what has to be done in order for all things to balance themselves out.