odd questions

[Gurgie]

OK, I'm not going to go through the whole "I'm new with some questions" thing, but I am new here, and new to the wonderful world of ball pythons. I do however, have some unusual questions. I'll list them one at a time...

(snake's name is Nag, which anyone who remember's "Rikki-Tikki Tavi" will remember)

Let me start off by saying I got him from a guy in Baton Rouge end of January I think of this year, and he was almost dead when he arrived here. Winters in Minneapolis, MN can be unbearably cold. I was supposed to have 2 snakes, but due to the stupidity and ignorance of the guy I bought them from, when they arrived, one was dead and had been for several hours, and Nag was so close to death, snake-heaven was waiting for him to slither on in.

1. Nag has this "loose skin" thing going on...its like you can pinch it between your fingers like it doesn't fit him: like an outfit thats too big on him. I thought it might be dehydration or something but I'm really confused about it.

2. For some odd reason Nag seems to enjoy being upside down. As he moves around his cage, he has a tendency to flip his head/neck area over upside down and sit that way for a few minutes to an hour or so at a time. Is it normal for them to want to be upside down a lot? And if yes, why?

3. I have a humidity problem in the tank...I have to spray water in the tank several times a day to keep the humidity level up. For whatever reason, in Minnesota there is a lot of moisture, but in the winter, it gets so dry in the house we have a humidifier running constantly. I want to get an automatic mister for the tank, but I cant afford it yet. I dont know if I have my tank set up properly or what? I must be doing something wrong or it would be more humid in the tank than what it is currently.

(The tank is set up as follows...I have some reddish bark chips lining the tank. I have a water bowl big enough he can fit his whole body in it with plenty of room to spare. He has a half-log hidey-hole over a container with sphagnum moss in it, but the chips are covering the container. I thought that was what the guy in the pet store was telling me, but now I'm afraid I misunderstood what he was describing. I do believe I need to fix the tank set-up but dont know what to do with it.)

4. How important is it that the snake have a light/dark period every day? Basically, I was passing out I was so tired and forgot to turn his night lamp on so he had all night with the daylight lamp on. On a separate occasion, he was sunning himself on a branch I have in the tank, and he was sitting right under the lamp, so I didnt turn the night light on that time either. I guess I figured if he was sitting that close to the day lamp he was cold, so I let him stay under the lamp without changing it.

5. Is it unusual to have a nocturnal animal who is not only awake most of the day, but he is moving around a LOT? It seems to me like he is moving a lot during the day, and I swear he keeps looking for a way out the tank. He stretches his body up the sides of the tank like he is trying to get out, and then he falls over, moves to the next corner and tries again. He climbs up on his climing branch and tries to get out that way as well. I swear if he could talk, he would be saying "gotta get out gotta get out..." all day and most of the evening.

and one last question for now...

6. He has been eating well for the past several months I have had him, and all of a sudden he has decided that mousie isnt on his menu anymore. I know that they dont have to eat like a warm-blooded animal does, but what could be causing him to decide that for whatever reason he doesnt want to eat? Is it normal for them to be inconsistant in feeding habits?

Please forgive my long post and many questions, but It appears I dont know as much about ball pythons as I thought I did. *grin* I'm sure I have other questions that I cant think of right now, but maybe thats best...I've already taken up enought of yourtime, but I thank you in advance for any help/advice that anyone is willing to give me.

Many thanks in advance,
Wendy

[JLC]

Wow...sounds like we have a lot of issues going on here, so let's just try to take this one step at a time. First step: WELCOME to bp.net! I think you've found the right place to help you get your little guy all set up, healthy and happy. Nag is a really cool name!

1. The loose skin you describe sounds to me like dehydration and/or a seriously underweight. Best thing for this is a constant supply of fresh, clean water (sounds like you have that) and regular meals of the right size. There's no way to diagnose the severity of the problem and a vet visit may be in order to see if the snake is in need of injected fluids or something.

2. I have no idea why he's behaving that way, but so far as I know, it's not normal. If I were in your shoes, I would get the environment set right and then see if that odd behavior doesn't stop. It could be that he's just trying to find ways to regulate his body temperatures in less than optimal conditions, or is expression some serious stress issues....or has some sort of illness. That trip to the vet can cover a multitude of questions for you!

3. Need more info about your tank, such as size, substrate, thermometers, hygrometers, etc. But basically, if it is a glass tank, you need to get the top covered and not be using lamps to heat it. Under Tank Heaters (UTH) work best for maintaining humidity. And the right substrate can help a lot as well. I live in Arizona...dry dry dry!...I have a glass tank with shredded cocunut husk substrate...and have no trouble keeping the proper humdity simply by misting once every few days or mixing in a handful of moist substrate wtih the dry.

4. A proper light/dark cycle is important. It won't kill your snake to have a light on all the time, but it can certainly contribute to overall stress...not to mention drying out that air big-time. If you get a UTH to maintain proper temps, then you shoudln't have to worry about switching lights and such. And it sounds like he is hanging out up by the light because the floor of the tank isn't warm enough.

5. Yes, it's unusual for a bp to be constantly active all day. There are exceptions to the rule, I'm sure, but generally, that is a good sign of a very stressed out critter.

6. Without a better understanding of its history and environment, we can't begin to know why it stopped eating. Stress, wrong temperatures, illness, impending shed....any of that, or something completely different...could make a snake go off feed.

Questions for you to answer for us to give you more detailed help:

How old is the snake? How big is it? (length and weight) How long have you had it? What size prey have you been feeding it and how often? Live prey? Pre-killed? Or frozen/thawed? Have you ever taken it to the vet for a check up and a fecal to find out if it has internal parasites?

And last but certainly not least....read this care sheet. No, don't just read it...STUDY it. LOL It will help you a lot, I think:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=52

Good luck with it. Keep asking questions and clarifying details. There's tons more I have in mind to say, but too much information at one time is sometimes just as bad as no information. LOL

[4Khan]

With the help of all the wonderful people here I too am over coming a humidity problem.


I have a 4 foot glass tank thats more like 50 gallon and not 40 like i thought.
I cover 1/3 of the screen, switched my 150 watt bulb to a 125 ceramic heat emitter. Most of the humidity is being taken away by the light/heat source. I made the mistake of having to much lighting. Also try a humidifier in the room besides the house. I stuck one in Khans room last night and it did the trick perfectly. If you have and under the tank heat pad put the large water dish over that spot, the moss thing is right, I used a daisy sourcream dish drilled a million holes in it and left it in an open area, yeah it looks odd but i used some plants around it to try to blend it in.

Like you said this is way more work than it seems. I had no idea that there would be these types of problems, but as long as you have the patience to try new ways to get everything right anyone of the posts you read should help you out.

But it sounds like Nag is one strange cookie, what he finds so interesting upside down is beside me. Searching the cage is something I think many snakes do. I go to the same pet store weekly to purchase food and there is this one Olive python who is ALWAYS streatching his body to the top of the cage, bumping around. I've gone in the morning and in the late afternoon and that snake is still going. what it all means I am not sure, the fact that hes moving is good but maybe not ALL the time. getting good mental and physical exercise is good, possibily something he didnt have with a pervious owner.He should rest, from all you've said this lil man has had it rough, he most likely is stressed out and is acting like how a dog acts when they pace around they house all day and night and seem skiddish after they first come into your home.Does that make sense? say you get a dog from a shelter, its like 2 years old, you bring him into your home and all he does is go back and forth from the kitchen to the living room all day pace pace pace, seems skiddish too and whimppers. the stress of a new place, new living, etc.

There is so much to learn and so much to see when you get a new snake. I have one bp (my first) and each day there is something new to tackle or see.

Good luck and keep us all updated!

Ps your a great person for taking that poor sanke(s) into your home!

[Gurgie]

Maybe what I need to do is ask you all for help on one issue at a time? I truely apreciate the 2 replies i got very quickly today.

first question....loose skin....

the stuff I was reading said that the loose skin can be caused by dehydration. I can believe that because of the condition he was in when he arrived. long story short - Nag and his brother were shipped to me from Baton Rouge. I'm in Minneapolis...major temperature differences. I told the guy to ship them overnight, to pack them in a box with something like a therma-care heat wrap. He didnt listen, and they were sent 2nd day air...in the belly of a plane, cold as you can imagine, and arrived in Minneapolis, frozen. The guy ddint listen and I lost one of my little guys before I even got them.

So anyway, when he got here, I placed him directly on my skin to try and warm him up enough that I didnt lose him as well. after about 2 or 3 hours, he made his first movement, so I placed him direclt under the heat lamp (on its stand about an inch above the top of the tank - 30 gallon). when he finally started moving around, the first thing he did was drink water...and drink and drink. I swear if he would have drunk any more, he would have blown up like a water-balloon. The skin folds did get better, but not completely.

When he ate the first mouse, about 10 days after he arrived, I was extatic because I felt than that he wasnt going to die, and that was that. However the skin folds have yet to go away completely. I frlt it had something to do with the humidity levels, which I am still trying to fix. More on that subject at another time.

Ido have a humidifier (a big one...whole house sized) right next to his tank, and it keeps the tank at about 50 to 60 percent humidity, which if I'm correct isnt high enough for a tropical snake. So we've been misting his tank many times per day but it takes a lot to keep it at 80%, which is why I want the automatic mister.

Anyway, I have a reddish bark chips for substrate, and I do have an under the tank heating pad, but it doesnt feel like its doing anything, unless I have the bark too thick. I do have shpagnum moss in the tank as well, but I have a feeling I did that wrong as well.

So I guess this question is, if someone can tell me how you have your tanks set up so I can see how you all do it, so I can finally get him to plump up and get rid of the loose skin. I saw in one of the photos here that it seems like whoever it was was using newspaper lining the tank...if yes, why use newspaper and does it do a better job than the bark stuff? Also, what do I do with the sphagnum moss and the plastic container, cause I think I did that wrong as well.

Ok so I guess I'll leave it at that for now and see what you all have to say, and then once I get this problem fixed, maybe you all would help me work on some of the other issues.

THANKS!

[JLC]

Ok....HUMIDITY.....you're working way too hard on that. Ball Pythons are not "tropical" snakes. They come from arid regions of Africa. We try to maintain the same kind of humdity they might find in their underground homes...which is about 50%-60%. Just bump it up near 70% for the week that they are "in shed" and you'll be golden. So that is one worry you can stop fretting over.

As for the loose skin...I can only say what I've already said. It may take time for him to completely get over the trauma of his trip. And if he's significantly underweight, it will take time to fill out. I still think a trip to the vet would be a very good idea.

I think it's important to know exactly what kind of substrate you're using. "Reddish bark" doesn't mean much. Since humidity seems to not really be an issue, you just need to make sure the substrate is something you can keep clean and it is not toxic to your snake. Pine and cedar are examples of toxic substrate that is fairly common to find in pet stores....so it's a very good idea to know what you have.

[frankykeno]

Welcome to the site Wendy, hopefully we can help you get a handle on your husbandry and help Nag settle in for you.

First thing I would suggest along with what others have said, is find a good herp vet. If you need help finding one in your area please let us know. Since Nag was so poorly shipped and is acting in a wierd manner with this flipping over thing I would encourage you to have him looked at and a fecal done. To have a fecal done is not expensive or difficult. Just collect his next poop in a ziploc baggie, then put that baggie in a second baggie and store in a container in the fridge (you might want to mark that container....apparently opening up what you think is margarine to find a bag of snake crap just upsets some folks! LOL). Take it to your herp vet as soon as you can. Most of them can do the sample while you wait.

Next thing I thought of was how are you measuring your temps and humidity. If you are using one of those stick on analog deals the pet stores push, it's not giving you accurate reads. This is what most of us use. WalMart $10.00 or thereabouts plus the cost of one AAA battery....Lowe's and Home Depot alsoe sell something similar to it under a different brand name rather than Acu-Rite. Works very well to give you accurate digital readings of the temps at substrate level on your warm and cool sides as well as the overall humidity of the enclosure. You need to get a warm side of 92-94 degrees, a cool side of 82-94 degrees, (that gives you a thermal gradient of 10 degrees which will allow Nag to properly thermoregulate) and humidity of about 50-60 percent (pushed up to 70 percent during shed cycles).



How big is Nag as far as length and approximate age? How big is the enclosure you use and what it is constructed of (glass, etc.)? We use Sterlite plastic tubs for our ball pythons but you can certainly keep them happily in a glass tank though it is a bit more work to stabilize it. Big thing is to get a good digital read on those two temps and the humidity and get this snake checked over by a vet. If Nag is sick, good husbandry will help but nothing will replace a vet visit with fecal testing (not saying Nag is definitely sick so please don't take it that way).

There's going to be a lot of information thrown at you but it's well meant and if taken step by step, it will be fine (just remember to breathe LOL)

[Gurgie]

weird worn in textwell, its good to know that I dont need to work so hard on the humidity. That's been killing me trying to keep the humudity up in the 80% .

on the vet idea...I think you're probably right...I just need to find one who is good enough with snakes/reptiles.

The guy at the pet store said the "reddish bark" was either pine of fir. I didnt know there were reddish pines though. I hope the pet store wouldnt sell something that would be toxic to the pets you purchase at their store. now I'm getting paranoid about what I have in his tank. sheesh any way to tell for sure if I dont remember exactly what it was?

also, lets just say worst case scenerio that it is in fact pine or cedar in the tank. how can I tell if he's sick or getting sick? Anyone know what symptoms I need to look for? and if it is either, anything I can do to make it all better, or am I going to lose him?

I can find out tomorrow for sure what it is that I bough...just remembered I need to go buy mousies tomorrow.

[JLC]

If you're unsure about the substrate, just take it out. BP's do fine on newspaper, or even paper towels, in a pinch. The toxicity in pine is not an "instant death" kind of thing, but a problem that builds up over time...so most likely it has not been enough time to cause a problem...although I'm still unsure about the timeline you're talking about and how long you've had the snake.


Anyhow...do'nt believe anything the petstore employees tell you. Esepecially if it is vague information. On rare occassions, you'll find stores with employees that both know and care about reptiles....but most often, they are there to sell stuff and that is it. They do'nt know and/or don't care if it is the right stuff, so long as they make their bucks.

[Shelby]

I'd definitely get the snake to a vet asap.. being upside down is not a good sign. The only time they are somewhat expected to do this is a gravid female sunning her babies/eggs, or a snake that just had a very large meal.. at these times, the head is not upside down though, just the belly.

Sounds like a neurological problem, but it could be something else.. a good reptile vet can help you out.

This is a site that lists reptile vets: http://www.arav.org/Directory.htm

[Gurgie]

Lets see....he is about 24 inches long, somewhere about 2 or 3 inches around. My best guess is that he is about a year to year and a half old. The cage is an old 30 gallon fish tank. for thermostats and hygrometer I have 2 round meters about 2 to 3 inches in diameter, they are dials with hands that move to their respective measurements.