Then why list them differently? Also After posting this I was reading some more and it seems that he is calling the sibs the normal looking snakes that hatch from co-dominent trate crossings. Does this sound right? It seems like he gives the normal looking snakes out of his Lesser crosses the sib notation. Just trying to do some absorbing while I drool over the 35000 butters and lessers. LOL Oneday I will talk the wife into letting me start with some Albinos. Oneday. Till then I read and dream. Why did I have to marry a woman that refuses to take risks. Makes me so mad sometimes I could screem, but thats another story. Thanks Daniel.