Mice v. Rats

[RWillinnable]

Well, I am 2 months into my life with Shahrazad and I am just so totally happy with everything. He is an absolute doll and I am so in love with him.

As some of you may know, I have decided for various reasons to feed live to my guy. He is a great feeder. Strikes and kills within minutes. I understand the possible consequences of feeding live, but I always keep a watchful eye and never leave the room until I am pretty sure the rodent is dead.

My question is this, I have mostly been feeding adult mice to my guy as he is still relatively small. But today at the pet store, the adult mice were very tiny. I am ok with giving him a small meal, but I did that for the last feeding and his actions led me to believe he was hungry after only 5 days or so. I usually wait a week, but I prefer to feed him at irregular time periods because it seems more natural to me. But anyway, the mice were too small this time and they didn't have any others, so I looked at the small rats. The small rats were for the most part too big, but there was one that was maybe just a bit on the large side, but not too much so. So I got him.

I put the rat in my guy's cage and the behavior differences between rats and mice became completely apparant. I usually put mice on top of my guy's hide box and they then spend about 5 minutes trying to get down from there or my guy goes and gets them, but for the most part mice are pretty meek little creatures. Nervous, but pretty passive for the most part.

This rat on the other hand, immediately jumped off the hide and then went inside to investigate Shahrazad. Shahrazad was still pretty asleep, so he didn't really react, but just to be safe, I removed the hide box from the terrarium, so I could watch more closely. As my guys was getting his bearings, the rat came over to him and started to paw at his sides. I don't think the rat was trying to hurt my guy so much as trying to figure out what he was because it was more like tapping than clawing. I shooed him away and then about 5 seconds later, my guy did his thing and it was over.

So I guess my question concerning rats is whether it is common for them to be more inquisitive than mice and whether they are conversly more aggressive? If so, is it possible to feed like two small mice to a snake? I am undeterred in my decision to feed live, but I want to do it in the most responsible manner. How would you feed two mice at one time? Put them both in? Or put one in at a time? Or should I just chalk this up to over-protective mother syndrome and quit fretting?

Thanks

Rachel

[greenmonkey51]

You should consider yourself pretty lucky, the rat could of easily decided to bit down on your ball. Rats are generally smarter than mice so they will investigate more. If you gonna feed rats, I would atleast make sure your snake is awake. Have you considered pre-killed.

[sweety314]

Mine won't eat PK/FT, so I've been doing 2 live mice (isn't there a song like that??? ). But at $1.29 each, and each feeding being 2 of the little critters, once Baby has been eating CONSISTANTLY, I'm going to try to train? get? encourage? her to eat F/T. It should be cheaper that way!


I've seen where both mice are dropped in at once. The first two times I've fed Baby I've put one in, and then the 2nd. This time I dropped both at the same time. All three times she's eaten; the last was right after her shed----quite literally......It's now been over a week and I'm going to get a couple more and see if she'll eat again. She was pretty p***y last week, and shed again but she's a lot calmer the past couple of days---not striking at me. The "small" rats I've bought have all been too big and she won't eat them, but she seems to like the two-mice meals I've provided.

< Another thread: I have YET to get tagged.... >

Good luck on whatever you decide.

R.

[Adam_Wysocki]

Don't remove the hide box!

Ball pythons are ambush predators, if you take out their hide box you leave them with no cover to hunt their prey from. Totally exposed, their stress level increases and so does the likely hood that they won't eat.

When you bring your rodent home from the store, don't immediately throw it in the cage. Instead, let it sit in the room with your snake, near the cage for 15-20 minutes. The sounds of the rodent and the smell will "wake up" your snake so that he/she is ready to eat when you drop the rodent in it's cage.

When you drop the rodent in, place it on the opposite side from the snake (or as far away as possible). This give the snake some extra time to get it's bearings.

In general, I usually find that older adult mice are far more aggressive than small rats, but rats seem to be more curious.

Feeding two mice is fine. Feed the first one using the tips from above and after your snake is done and "relaxed" again, feed the second. Never put two prey items in the cage at the same time.

If your snake does not eat within 30-60 minutes, it's probably not going to eat. Contrary to popular belief, during that time frame, a rodent (rat or mouse) is not going to just decide to "bite down" on your snake. Rodents are neither predators nor carnivores, so your snake will be fine for a short period of time.

-adam

[RWillinnable]

Thanks guys.

As for putting the rat in on a different side of the cage, that is kind of impossible. He is in a 10 gallon cage and until AP delivers the T3 cage I bought, my hands are kind of tied. Once the cage gets here, I plan to put the rodent inside a ceramic pot with a chipped base that I found at a local nursery. I am going to put the pot upside down and put the rodent inside it so it is kept out of harms way until Shahrazad decides to go get it. He can then enter from above and do his thing. Not ideal because I would like to allow him to sit in a hide and ambush his prey, but he is such a great feeder, I think it will work.

I removed the hide because I just wanted to be able to watch and make sure nothing happened.

As for Shahrazad, he is still sleeping, and judging by the bulge I saw yesterday, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't see him until tomorrow night.

Rachel

[frankykeno]

Rachel, everything Adam said is absolutely bang on and exactly the way we safely feed live to our snakes. Right now they are on f/t but only because it was cheaper to have frozen rats shipped from Texas than buy them locally here in Michigan live (how dumb is that!)

Putting the rat in a container near the snake prior to feeding is great advice! I credit that actually for getting our WC rescue who was not eating to eat consistently.

Adam feeds a lot of snakes a lot of live prey w/o incident. You can't argue with what works and I for one have followed his advice and found it worked beautifully with all 5 of our female balls.



~~Jo~~

[sweety314]

I've appreciated Adam's advice. He's been very helpful with MY questions.

Baby ate again this morning, but the mice were dropped one at a time. I've taken the sep. feeding tub route (with vent. holes) and I've used it the 3x she's eaten. Baby gobbles the first after less than a minute, then I dropped in the 2nd...... yaaaaaaaay! Another full snakey tummy.

One more live, then I think I'm going to order and try switching her to the FT. Boy! Won't THAT be conversation starter when my friends and family peek into my freezer!!! hee hee hee ROTFLMBO