Feed response in RTB's

[frankykeno]

Bit of advice here needed folks. We've been asked to assist a new owner in feeding her RTB. She unfortunately has no snake experience whatsoever and has acquired a 4 to 5 foot red tail (said to be male). She knows it eats rats but is finding out if it eats live or f/t.

Mike will be going to help her with the first few feeds. Is there anything we should know or expect to see in the feeding response of RTB's as compared to Ball Pythons. Granted our Royals are very small compared to this snake but I've heard RTB's are a much more aggressive feeder than even a large Ball.

Any advice would be appreciated as we have no real experience with RTB's but someone's got to assist her till she feels comfortable with feeding this rather large snake.

Thanks as always,

Jo

[Forrest]

Jo,
I would offer it one prekilled large/jumbo rat. Since you don't know the temperment with this snake I would remove the snake from the enclosure first, place the rat in, then place the snake back in the cage (following proper husbandry rules of course: wash hand after handling rat and before handling snake ect.ect.ect.). Another way would be to use tongs to place the rat in the enclosure. That way the new owner can do it and not really have the risk of being bitten. Keep in mind the new owner should be the one doing all of this because it is her snake and she needs to get accustomed to these routine husbandry chores. Also it will help set up a routine the snake and her can be familiar with. I do agree someone needs to be with her to show her the ropes but I really can't stress enough that she needs to be the one doing it and not your husband. Good luck and I hope this helps.

Forrest

[SatanicIntention]

I'm sorry, but since no one knows the temperment of this snake when it is hungry, I would personally leave it in the cage to feed. That way you have a much lesser chance of getting bitten rather than the much higher chance you get when first placing it in the feeding bin, feeding it, and then moving the snake back to it's enclosure all while it is still in feeding mode. With large snakes, feeding them in their enclosure is the much safer alternative, since you can open the lid(or open the door), toss the rat in, close the lid or door, and back off.

Regardless of how well you wash your hands, that snake will be in feeding mode as soon as that rat enters the house. The smell of rat will be on your clothes, in the air, etc. It is just safer to feed these guys in their enclosures and stick to that routine as they get bigger.

My $0.02 though...

[Forrest]

SatanicIntention,
So do you agree with my suggestion of using the tongs? I also never said anything about placing it in a feeding bin, I agree that RTB (large snakes in general) should be fed in their enclosures. Also it is always a good idea when someone ask for suggestions to list more than one reason unless there is only one answer so they can figure what way suits them best. We got newbie here who is looking for advice and your discrediting washing your hands, c'mon now. I do agree once the scent is picked up by the snake watch out, but you also have to read the introduction that said two people are going to present. One to kill the rat, the other holds the snake (common sense if you know snakes). I'm not trying to discredit you, because I have noticed you give out good advice ( I checked out previous posts) but my goal on this forum is to educate and get all snake owners in the practice of great husbandry. This is just my 2 cents so take it for what its worth.. P.S. To all on this forum have a great weekend.

[SatanicIntention]

Where did I say to not wash your hands? I just stated that regardless of how many times you wash your hands, the snake will still be in feeding mode.

Also, if you don't put them in a feeding bin, where are they going to eat? On the floor where young children may play later? That rat could burst, urinate or defecate on the carpet(regardless of if it is dead or not), and there will be salmonella/e.coli on the carpet. Can someone say "Ick"?

I agree with the use of long feeding tongs(12"+). You can use hemostats, grilling tongs, or just very large tweezers. If you want to go cheap You can go to WalMart and get some fishhook removers. They look like alligator forceps, about a foot long and cost $4. They worked great for me until I finally got some hemostats.

It is true that two people may be present, but one of those people has no snake experience whatsoever. She may not know what to do if the snake latched onto Mike. Even though it is only a 4.5'-5' boa, when it is feeding time, they don't play.

As for food, I would go with a smaller rat. First, they are easier to kill, and second, it will be a little bit easier on the owner's budget if the snake decides not to eat. Especially if the snake won't eat prey that has been frozen, and the rat just has to be thrown away.

[daniel1983]

Since you don't know the temperment with this snake I would remove the snake from the enclosure first, place the rat in, then place the snake back in the cage (following proper husbandry rules of course: wash hand after handling rat and before handling snake ect.ect.ect.).

So you would take the snake out of the enclosure....put the rodent in the enclosure....then put the snake back in the enclosure?

I would not suggest that method for several reasons:

1) If the temperment of the snake is unknown, the last thing you want to do is handle at feeding time.

2)In order to decrease the stress on the snake and increase the chance of a successful feeding, the snake should be disturbed as little as possible before a feeding attempt. Most snakes and especially snakes that are in a new environment may not eat once their environment is disturbed and they are removed from the 'safety' of their home.

3) By placing the rodent in the enclosure first, the scent will linger in the air everwhere the rodent has been. Although the rodent smell may not be noticable to you, the snake can definately sense the smell in the air. So the snake may initiate a feeding responce when still being handled by the keeper. If the rodent is placed into the snake enclosure, the feeding responce will not be initiated until the scent reaches the snake.

[Lobo_Reptiles]

I don't mean to butt in but...I guess Im asking this as well for when my boa gets bigger. Feeding them in their enclosure...wouldnt that eventually make them think that everytime someone opens the lid/door that there is food coming? Thats what I was told...

[SatanicIntention]

If you are only in there to feed them, then there is a small problem... There is absolutely no way that the snake will associate you coming into the enclosure as dinner time.

If you are in there pretty much every day cleaning, changing water, examining the snake, checking temperatures, then there won't be any association. I think the only association he may make is when you bring a rat into the room, he will know it's time to eat.

I have fed my ball, Amani, in her enclosure since I got her last November. She has never hissed, struck, or tried to bite me while I am getting her out of the tub. I can clean around her, and all she does it look at me. The little Rosy is fed in his tank too, but he's so easy going, I doubt he has a care in the world what I do to him. Little toot.

Anyway, it's just so much easier to feed her in her tub because I didn't have to buy a second tub to put her in while feeding her. People with larger snakes just don't have a choice. Rubbermaid can't make any bigger tubs, LoL. It just wouldn't be safe to get a 10'(or much longer) long snake out of it's enclosure just to feed, and then have to put it back while it is still in feeding mode. Just not too safe, especially if you don't have a second person around to help out in case something does happen.

[frankykeno]

Mike was into the pet shop today where this snake was purchased. He was able to talk to another employee who has fed this snake in the past and got some info. Apparently it's a very good eater and will willingly take prey live, f/t, p/k...it doesn't care so they say.


It is used to being fed in it's enclosure and prey is offered to it much as with our ball pythons except of course much longer tongs. The guy told Mike he has actually fed by hand alone but LOL we aren't going to go there!

Mike is planning to do the actual feed himself if she seems intimidated or the snake is highly aggressive when it smells rat. The next few feedings Mike will just stand by and make sure she and the snake do okay, then hopefully she will by then have the confidence to handle this snake herself on feeding day.

She may also end up getting help feeding from the pet store employee that originally owned this snake, so perhaps in the end, this will be a moot point. I just want to be prepared if she suddenly calls with a dead rat and a hungry snake LOL.

Thanks all for your input.


~~Jo~~

[Jeanne]

Feeding in the enclosure can be done without any issues and it perfectly acceptable to do, in fact, it is easier for some ppl and some prefer to do so. HOWEVER, be mindful of the type of substrate the snake lives in b/c you dont want him/her swallowing its substrate, that opens you/the snake up for trouble. Substrate can be covered with newspaper or paper towels, but with a snake you really dont know well, I dont know that I would want to take the time to cover substrate to get bit when removing the towels or newspaper while it is still in feeding mode.

I do not feed any of my snakes in thier enclosures (due to the type of substrate used in my enclosures), including my red tail. For me, this is a personal choice and convienence. While they are out, thier enclosures get a full once over, fresh water, etc. However, doing this only works well if you have a few snakes, as it can be time consuming to remove many snakes one at a time for feeding.

Here is my feeding routine:

1. Use anti bacterial hand soap (water free kind), cleans and gets any smells off of me.
2.Put Caleb (redtail) into the feeding bin
3.Dangle rat over/by him with long hemostats

It dont take long for him to latch onto the rats, in fact he is a very very aggressive feeder, always has been, much more so than the bp's. From what I can tell, most boas are like this (redtail type). Caleb is almost 4 foot now, he has been fed in a feeding bin since I got him when he was only 26 inches long, just last Sept. After Caleb eats, I leave him in the feeding bin for about 20 mins. Lets him settle down and not be high strung in feeding mode when it is time to vacate the feeding bin. When it is time to get him out, I use the hand cleaner on my hands again, and even farther up my arms to my elbows usually. Open his feeding bin, there have been times he is not completely settled, so I move slowly, and touch his body to let him know it is me and not prey. Usually this is enough for him to settle the rest of the way to get him out and back to his enclosure. There have been times I have had to use a hook to convince (mind you, he has never struck at me or acted aggressive with me) him he wants to go the other way so I can grab ahold of him, but I have not been bit ever! I think the reason this has worked out so well for me, is because he is conditioned to it. So I dont know how well the other boa you are going to help feed will do with this right off the bat... but I believe he/she can be conditioned to this type of feeding with time and patience. And yes, you can get HUGE feeding bin/housing type things..... Iris makes a huge bin much like the sterilites and rubber maids we are using for housing, just cant remember the model. A feeding bin does not need to be as big as the snakes enclosure. But feeding HUGE snakes such as retics, burms and some larger redtails is not going to happen in a feeding bin, so you must decide if the snake can be fed in one.