Derma Ball - Enter if you dare!

[xdeus]

Okay, being that I let the veritable hairless cat out of the bag, I wanted to find out what everyone thought of one of the latest discoveries in the Ball Python World. Here is a picture of the Derma Ball: Derma Ball Picture

Personally, I think it is rather pathetic looking and would never want to own one. I'm not sure what the lack of scales and heat pits would mean to a python and whether it would affect the quality of life or its survival, but on a purely aesthetic view, I like to see my snakes with all the right parts especially scales.

I don't see this as a morph, but rather a handicap although that is speculative at this point until more is known about the function of scales and heat pits are in captivity. However, if it is determined to be detrimental to a snake, but not necessarily fatal, how would you feel about breeders propagating this anomaly for financial gain? I'm sure there would always be a market for anything "different" in the Ball Python industry, and it probably wouldn't be much different than a two-headed snake, but personally how would you feel about the breeder?

Just thought I would throw this out there and find out what other people thought.

[Smulkin]

I cant see the pic - but it sounds like a ghastly collection of defects - no scales?! no heat-pits!?

(EDIT - some pebbly scales present but huge swatches just missing )


Here are the original threads/pics from VPI - please do not link the pics here - that's bandwidth snatching:

Derma Ball Links via VPI

Just click on the links with DERMA in them and view the attachments.

I'd host them if I knew who to ask permission of but the original poster is remaining anonymous (theres a shocker)

[Smulkin]

Bizarre looking - I would hope thats not a trait being bred for - would be akin to breeding for eyelessness.

[Schlyne]

I don't like it. I really don't care for the fact that huge swatches of scales are missing. I can just see a snake like that having issues later on.

[xdeus]

I don't like it. I really don't care for the fact that huge swatches of scales are missing. I can just see a snake like that having issues later on.

Okay, but for arguments sake what would you think if it didn't have any issues later on? Would you consider it another morph or something else? I don't think one can define a morph as solely being a change in the coloration of a snake as many dwarf snakes are considered morphs, too.

[Smulkin]

Would you consider it another morph or something else? I don't think one can define a morph as solely being a change in the coloration of a snake as many dwarf snakes are considered morphs, too.

Where are its pits? How would it feed? In those scaleless areas how much pressure from a rat claw would it take to rip the skin? You could draw parallels that would evoke extreme pathos - as it is I feel bad for that little fella (assuming it hatched with a complete set of genitalia).

[RobertCoombs]

From what I have read the animal started right up feeding and has not stopped I saw it earlier this week on the RDR journal.. This inst the first time this has happened.. there is a line of albino rattlesnakes that this happens to

[Marla]

That's quite a set of photos of that baby. First, as to whether it's a "morph": the dictionary (check www.dictionary.com) has morph as meaning

One of various distinct forms of an organism or species.

and I am familiar with its meaning being something along the lines of "a visually distinctive variation of a species brought about by natural or unnatural selective breeding within the species." By either of those definitions, I'd say this is a morph, though we generally only use that term to refer to color and pattern morphs within ball pythons. Does that mean it should be bred (if possible) and developed as a line? No, that's an entirely different issue.

Personally, I think it's very cool to see the baby, but I would hate to see a line of these developed as it seems to me that ball python might be one of the worst species of snakes to attempt this with. If you want to produce a line of snakes with markedly reduced scalation (and I'm not saying anyone should), I think it should be a faster, more assertive snake lacking heat pits, so that the animal has a better chance of survival. It's one thing to reproduce naturally occurring variations in quantities that would not be sustainable in the wild, but it is a whole other question ethically (IMHO) to reproduce or attempt to reproduce animals that are not equipped with the basic equipment of their predecessors for form, function, and protection.

[Schlyne]

There is one other snake out there (I think it might be a colubrid) which occasionally throws mutations where the snake doesn't have any scales. I know I've seen pictures and articles on it before, but I remember what species it was. Found the link, it's a texas ratsnake. http://www.herper.com/strange/scalelesspics.html

You can label it as a morph, but it's not something I would ever buy or produce. It seems like it will be more delicate or prone to infections than other snakes. I really doubt that it would have 100% no issues of any kind really. I have always wondered what a shed would like from a snake with no scales since seeing the texas ratsnakes.. I'm wondering what exactly a shed from this guy would look like.

EDIT: It runs out the scaless texas rats have belly scutes..the derma ball pictured doesn't.

[normballpython2]

I have to admit it is pretty darn cute as a baby and may look cool as an adult IMO but as far as survival i think we just have to wait. a snake that would be bred to be a morph like this one would be specifically bred to be owned in captivity. Those who would choose to feed it live would not be making a logical choice due to it's state at the moment. So if it would be kept and bred in captivity then the only choice i see this morph eating is f/t or p/k. Secondly no i wouldn't like to see this ball python bred to gain money but if i had the chance to own one i would definitely take it. I know some might think the animal is suffering but at the moment there is no way of knowing so. i mean i understand, no heat pits, no scales, It's defense mechanisms have been robbed from it but some how it still manages to eat and is healthy(form what i understand). Really all i am saying is if it is to be considered a new morph i won't knock it. if it can stay healthy and be alive and content then yeah i think it should be bred. But i do have one question though, does anyone know if this was done on purpose or was it an accident lol. for a side note if this was done on purpose i just wanna bring up my favorite quote that i have lived by ever since 3rd grade. " IF what u have is WELL ENOUGH then leave WELL ENOUGH ALONE" lol couldn't resist myself

Brian