Questioning the temps specs

[smellati]

Wow this forum really went dead after the facelift. But that is a different subject. I've had my BP for quite awhile, and have little if any questions about their care, however I would like to challenge something. We all say that the temps are suppose to be at 90F hot and 80F cool side, but how many of us have actually seen their BP come out and bask? I don't expect BP's to be particulary active during the day, but when my BP occasionally comes out and clings himself to the glass to cool down when he already is on the cool side, it makes me wonder. I Don't care what the temps are, when they are in the wild. I just want to bring up the point that maybe, they don't like it that hot, regardless of the temps they have to deal with in the wild. Sure, my bp will cruise around his cage at night, but even at this time, where he is the most active, and his cage the coolest, he never basks. Just cause some guy wrote down 90F hot side, don't make it true. I once asked a similar question a very long time ago, and the answer I got was that it is their default behavior to go the collest spot possible. I have a hard time believing that bp's are that stupid, and won't bask if they really need to. I also read a few caresheets for green tree pythons, and they all stated that although the temps are quite high in the wild, it is better to give a lower temp since they don't seem to like it that warm. Why isn't the same true for bp's? Are we just stubborn, or is there a real reason for it?

I am only raising the question, I'm not saying that, that is how it's suppose to be. Sorry for the long post.

[Adam_Wysocki]

I keep my temps between 82 and 84 on one side of the enclosure and 92 and 94 on the other.

I can walk into my shop at any time of the day any day of the week and observe my ball pythons thermo-regulating. Some go to the cool side, some move to the hot. They rarely spend 24 hours lying in one spot.

I know that these temperatures are correct because I have a good sized collection of snakes that are THRIVING. With few exceptions they are ALL fantastic eaters and breeders, and are 100% healthy.

FWIW, I know several large breeders with collections of over 800 animals that use these temps as well. They feed their families and pay their mortgages by breeding ball pythons. I am sure that they don't chance keeping their snakes at these temps because some guy wrote it in a book. They do it because ball pythons do best at 82-84 on the cool and 92-94 on the hot.

Hope this helps.

-adam

[daniel1983]

Like adam said.... these temps are what people have been keeping ball pythons at for over 20 years. In that time period, If someone would have found temperatures that works better and is better for the snakes.....i promise everyone would be keeping at those temps. You also have to remember that unless you watch your bp 24/7 then there is no way to monitor them thermoregulating and moving about. Maybe you just check in when your snake is doing a particular behavior....heaven only knows what the snake does the rest of the time and why it does it? Maybe he basks....but you just dont see it...keep that in mind. Hope that helps a bit more.

[Linda]

I am fine with these temps but what I would like to know is:

What part of the hot and cold sides do these temps refer to?
Inside the hide or the ambient air above the hide?

Because I have two different temps per side and they aren't the same.

[PrincessErica]

I measure by the temps on the floor of the hide, since that's almost always where my guy is. Seems like the most relevant number to go by.

[Adam_Wysocki]

I am fine with these temps but what I would like to know is:

What part of the hot and cold sides do these temps refer to?
Inside the hide or the ambient air above the hide?

Because I have two different temps per side and they aren't the same.

My temps don't vary from between 92-94 on the hot and 82-84 on the cool taken from multiple locations (ambient, floor, hides, etc). That's the point of specifying a range rather than an exact temp.

-adam

[elevatethis]

You're right....by nature, ball pythons do not bask - they are nocturnal. There's no sun for them to bask in when they are "active." That being said, its not like bps go out and hunt at night, They are ambush predators. Chances are that during the day, they seek out a cool place to hang out where they are not bothered or exposed to the elements or other predators (ball pythons are NOT on the top of the food chain). Now, come nighttime, there are certain areas that retain heat long after the sun goes down- rocky, sandy areas, more "open" places left alone by the diurnal predators; all great areas to sit and wait for an unsuspecting rodent to stroll by (read: thermoregulation: I have noticed that my guys tend to be on the cool side more often than the warm side during the daytime. This is somewhat consistent with the inference made above, or could be completely coincidental).

Thats in the wild. This is captivity. We can not offer them the exact seasonal weather conditions that they recieve in the wild. Therefor, through the experience of many other before us (as adam noted) we have found a setup that seems to be very compatible with their nature, and so thats what we do.

If you really think you want to question it, formulate a hypothesis on what you think would be better for them and test it out using the scientific method. This is what a herpetologist (who also happen to be breeders sometimes) might do.

If Adam or Ralph Davis or whoever tells me 94-94/82-84......I'm going to take their experience to heart and do it regardless of whatever untested theories I can come up with.....


PS. Anyone have any good literature on wild ball python behavior? That would probably be useful, and hopefully back up some of my inferences above.

[Adam_Wysocki]

You're right....by nature, ball pythons do not bask - they are nocturnal. There's no sun for them to bask in when they are "active."

Actually, nocturnal snakes do bask. If you've ever been out field herping on a cool autum night, you'd know that the best place to look for snakes is on a hot blacktopped road, or a large dark colored rock.

Large dark thermal masses like that absorb tons of heat during the day while the sun is out and act as perfect "basking areas" for animals that only feel safe coming out at night.

From people that I've spoken with that have been to Western Africa and observed ball pythons in the wild, the same holds true over there.

Hope this helps.

-adam

[elevatethis]

Yeah I can see them doing that...I was thinking along the lines of "basking" in the context of say, a bearded dragon - during the day, in a spot of intense sunlight, out in the open, etc etc. But yeah I see how they could "bask" low-key like you said above.