Ball python enclosure

[Malum Argenteum]

they have some-what recently been discovered as semi arboreal with mostly the males spending the most time in trees.

Well, at least as long ago as 26 years this observation was published.
Sexual size dimorphism and natural history traits are correlated with intersexual dietary divergence in royal pythons (python regius) from the rainforests of southeastern Nigeria

This research found arboreality only in royal pythons less than 1 meter in length. I'd be curious to see more up to date research if you have citations.

[BeansTheDerp]

Oh yes thank you! Better wording would have been that it has been recently pushed more in reptile keeping.
I will for sure be finding those articles for you, a lot of them you can find yourself and you can find even more information if you check out reptiles and research. He has a channel on youtube, has a "Bachelor's degree in applied animal sciences (formally animal management)" (Copied and pasted from his own words). He does a lot of videos updating and correcting old reptile keeping and discusses the articles and new information found. He even has posts/articles(?) on his website: https://reptilesandresearch.org/
Animals at home is also a good one for info. Reptifiles (website) has listed information but as far as listed sources I do not know.

Here are a few specific things I recommend checking out.

https://reptilesandresearch.org/rept...nimal-welfare/ - animal/reptile welfare paper
https://reptilesandresearch.org/folk...dryinreptiles/ - reptile husbandry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qh0Kirzn6A - one of the biggest ball python enclosures in a zoo(?) which is pretty amazing to see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVPw_OxgbHE&t=1s - unlocking your ball pythons potential with Lori Torrini
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9DCqKD-U4o - Myths about reptile behavior with Lori Torrini
https://journal.iaabcfoundation.org/...nt-for-snakes/ - enrichment for snakes article
https://journal.iaabcfoundation.org/...uroenrichment/ - potential neural consequences for snakes under captive management article

edit: adding one more which is more on behavior than husbandry.

https://reptilesandresearch.org/rept...aviourwelfare/ - stereotypes in reptile behavior

[Malum Argenteum]

Those are interesting links, thanks. Nothing on the R&R site regarding climbing, and only one hit for 'arboreal' (in a corn snake context). Some of the content there is pretty basic, and is rehashed from online hobby discussions. One example:

"Furthermore, if a ball python and a Burmese python are members of the same genus and are similar enough to breed and produce viable hybrids, then it could be argued that it is probable they are also similar enough that they can both cutaneous synthesis vitamin D through UV. " (from here: https://reptilesandresearch.org/do-snakes-need-uvb/)

This, like many simplified discussions of the topic, ignores (or is unaware of) the relevance of evolutionarily conserved genes. Though it does involve handwaving in that direction (the viable hybrid mention), whether an animal has the genetic and even physiological capacity for something doesn't entail that it is adaptive either in the wild environment or (even more so) the captive environment.

That UVB page also ignores the practical risks of providing UVB in captivity by novice keepers.

I've listened to a few AAH podcasts, and they discussed some thought provoking topics. I should check that one out more.

I've long been skeptical of Reptifiles, since it is a for profit site with lots of content written by someone with no first hand experience with the species being advised on.

None of this is to dismiss or criticize your posting of the links, exactly, but just to continue the discussion in a way that I hope readers find useful.

[BeansTheDerp]

I agree with you on the reptifiles thing that they don't have all the experience, but my viewpoint is that because the owner converses with others such as AAH that she gets the information from those with it. I was mainly trying to link you reading material, but most of the mentions of being semi arboreal/climbing reptiles are in Liam's videos (R&R). On his youtube page he does have many playlist for a lot of different topics, including one fully dedicated to ball pythons which I recommend checking out. Also some of those papers on his website are written by a different person not him, and I hadn't noticed any questionable things.

[Malum Argenteum]

I agree with you on the reptifiles thing that they don't have all the experience, but my viewpoint is that because the owner converses with others such as AAH that she gets the information from those with it.

Understood.

But: when I tell you something, what I say is filtered -- by my (probably not 100% correct) perception of you, by how much time I have to flesh things out, by the specific point I'm trying to make in a specific context (and if I'm running an Amazon Affiliate site, I have a strong motivation to filter in some hardware recommendations that may or may not be necessary). And you don't know what or why I've filtered, so you can't reverse engineer what I've said.

Then when you tell that stuff to the next person, that same filtering goes on, and additionally you probably didn't understand everything 100% (maybe because I didn't explain it clearly; an example is the 'recently been discovered' exchange you and I had up there), so info is lost. Then also you speculate (often reasonably) to fill in some gaps. It is the telephone game, basically; on a large scale it is an echo chamber. That's why I think care sheets (etc) should be written by people with extensive specific experience that is at least largely informed by empirical evidence when possible, and by no one else.

[BeansTheDerp]

Understood.

But: when I tell you something, what I say is filtered -- by my (probably not 100% correct) perception of you, by how much time I have to flesh things out, by the specific point I'm trying to make in a specific context (and if I'm running an Amazon Affiliate site, I have a strong motivation to filter in some hardware recommendations that may or may not be necessary). And you don't know what or why I've filtered, so you can't reverse engineer what I've said.

Then when you tell that stuff to the next person, that same filtering goes on, and additionally you probably didn't understand everything 100% (maybe because I didn't explain it clearly; an example is the 'recently been discovered' exchange you and I had up there), so info is lost. Then also you speculate (often reasonably) to fill in some gaps. It is the telephone game, basically; on a large scale it is an echo chamber. That's why I think care sheets (etc) should be written by people with extensive specific experience that is at least largely informed by empirical evidence when possible, and by no one else.

Once again I agree, I have trouble getting my points across and using the right words/phrases because I'm not very good at talking to people because of some mental things... Which is why I usually direct people towards my source or a channel/person than knows more or will be able to give more/better info with better wording because of having more experience or association with people who have more experience. I also fear giving people the wrong information or delivering it incorrectly which is another reason for that, plus it gives the opportunity for people to leave thoughts on said sources and it becomes a learning moment.
The telephone game is one of many reasons why I always find multiple sources for things or at least try to, and why when giving people information about things I try to give multiple sources.

[Malum Argenteum]

I think everyone misses the proper wording and could do a better job at getting points across from time to time. You seem to do a fine job conversing here.