WLP getting tested for Inclusion body disease.

[bcr229]

Flagyl is an appetite stimulant which is why it's commonly given to WC imports. Not only does it treat for parasites but it encourages stressed snakes to eat.

Hopefully it's just a resurgence of the hookworms. I've not had to deal with worming snakes, but with my horses I had to worm constantly and rotate through different types of wormers because parasites would become resistant if you just used one. So, if this snake was dosed with flagyl when it was imported, and some of the worms survived, then your vet dosed with flagyl again, and now it still has some hookworms, it might be worthwhile to switch to a different wormer.

[Awesomethepossum]

This shouldn't be "too soon" after his latest regurge on 2/24, as long as the prey is on the small side. And I'll be hoping you finally have some better luck with him.

I don't think IBD is at all likely- but crypto, who knows? I vaguely recall a thread* from a gal in Europe who got a corn snake from a pet store, & struggled with it (regurgitating meals)- it was really unusual because sometimes it showed a small mid-body swelling, but then it would disappear, which makes no sense at all. (*I'm not sure if that thread was on this forum or not, it's been a while.) I'm so sorry that you're having to worry about crypto as a possible cause.

Anyway, I assume your vet ruled out blockages, whether from swallowed undigestible debris, or an abnormal growth-like a tumor? Some animals (of all kinds) can be born or hatched with an abnormally narrow passageway in their digestive tract, that only shows up when they grow. And your vet should be the one to come up with other possible causes- as far as internal parasites or other seldom-seen diseases. If you're not convinced about the hookworms being the possible issue, I'd ask more questions about that too. (But maybe he'll finally keep this one down, eh? I HOPE!)

He's negative for IBD, she didn't mention blockages or tumors. I'll mention that when I go in this week.

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[Awesomethepossum]

Flagyl is an appetite stimulant which is why it's commonly given to WC imports. Not only does it treat for parasites but it encourages stressed snakes to eat.

Hopefully it's just a resurgence of the hookworms. I've not had to deal with worming snakes, but with my horses I had to worm constantly and rotate through different types of wormers because parasites would become resistant if you just used one. So, if this snake was dosed with flagyl when it was imported, and some of the worms survived, then your vet dosed with flagyl again, and now it still has some hookworms, it might be worthwhile to switch to a different wormer.

You're right..the seller treated him, then held onto him a month to make sure he was eating well post treatment. Said he was eating like a pig. Ate well for me for a couple of months, went off food, was treated, ate well for a few months...went off again. And here we are.

I got him a very small, live mouse fuzzy, got it wet and sprinkled a little Nutribac on top. He just ate it. I guess we'll see. I'm hoping he keeps this one down, either way, I need to see her in the next day or so, depending on how he does with it.

But thank you-you made a really good point. I'm definitely bringing this up when I see her

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[Bogertophis]

Just to be on the safe side, I'd wait a good 5 days to make sure he keeps this one down before visiting the vet again- & I agree w/ bcr229 also.

To the best of my knowledge, Flagyl (metronidazole) doesn't treat for hookworms- but yes, it tends to stimulate a snake's appetite, as it gets rid of protazoans. (not hookworms) If your snake was only given Flagyl, it's likely that the hookworms are still alive & well. BTW, metronidazole is also sold for dosing tropical fish. ("Aqua-Zole" or "Fish-Zole" etc)

It's been a while since I've needed either one, but to get rid of worms in a snake, I've used fenbendazole (Panacur), in the form of horse dewormer paste* (put in the oral cavity of the mouse that was fed). For safety, I cautiously used a somewhat lower dose & repeated it several times, so as not to cause a massive die-off of worms that can (in some cases) die off & cause blockages** in areas they may have migrated to in a snake's body. (**which could also cause other & sometimes serious, even fatal issues). Remember, "First do no harm".

*(https://www.chewy.com/panacur-equine...gaApT2EALw_wcB

To the best of my knowledge, Ivermectin is more effective against hookworms, but it's also pretty strong & can harm (kill) a snake if not used VERY carefully. It too is sold in various forms- a paste for deworming horses, & an injectable form for cattle. I actually use the latter (a TINY calculated dose extracted from the bottle with a syringe) every month to prevent heartworm in my dogs- years back, my then-vet told me about it, as it's so much less expensive than the oral chewies sold for dogs, but it's not the best method for everyone. The tiny dose is then applied to something the dog eats- I use a bit of bread w/ peanut butter to cover the medicinal taste. My dogs have never had heartworms & I've been safely using this for years. But always ask your vet before using this for your dogs- as there are some dog breeds that are sensitive to all these medications, & this one has very little margin for error- and especially in snakes! Ivermectin is sold in feed stores without prescription, fyi. And I've NEVER used it on a snake, btw.

[Bogertophis]

By the way- just for clarity here & so we don't have to re-read this whole thread for details, can you specify what meds you & your vet have used so far on this WLP?

[Awesomethepossum]

By the way- just for clarity here & so we don't have to re-read this whole thread for details, can you specify what meds you & your vet have used so far on this WLP?

Metronidazole and Fortaz

He received 3 doses of Metronidazole for the hookworms.

And the injections of Fortaz which, I believe, was every 3 days for about 2 months. That was for the infection shown in his high WBC count, which was assumed to be related to the hookworms, since IBD was ruled out and his blood tests came back normal otherwise


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[Bogertophis]

Metronidazole and Fortaz

He received 3 doses of Metronidazole for the hookworms.

And the injections of Fortaz which, I believe, was every 3 days for about 2 months. That was for the infection shown in his high WBC count, which was assumed to be related to the hookworms, since IBD was ruled out and his blood tests came back normal otherwise


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So if your vet is SURE that this snake has hookworms, then metronidazole would seem to be the wrong drug for the job. See my post #64 above.

And by all means, do your own reading up on treating hookworms effectively in snakes. I don't find Metronidazole recommended anywhere for hookworms.

I'm not a vet but I can read. And WOW, that was a LOT of Fortaz! I've never used it & haven't researched that specifically (yet), but antibiotics in general are rough on a snake's body, & every 3 days for 2 months is a long time. It would be a miracle if he WASN'T regurgitating after killing off his gut bacteria so effectively.

[Bogertophis]

Metronidazole and Fortaz

He received 3 doses of Metronidazole for the hookworms.

And the injections of Fortaz which, I believe, was every 3 days for about 2 months. That was for the infection shown in his high WBC count, which was assumed to be related to the hookworms, since IBD was ruled out and his blood tests came back normal otherwise


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I also have to wonder if he would have NEEDED the Fortaz* (*at all, or for so many injections?) if his hookworms had actually been addressed? I think you need to ask your vet a lot of questions.

Also, has he kept ANY kind of food down (liquid or solid) SINCE he was done with the Fortaz? If that's what is causing his regurgitations, then I'd be tube-feeding him (Gerber's chicken diluted plus probiotics) for a while as it's easier for his stomach to handle. But since you just fed him, I'll keep my fingers crossed & hope he can handle it.

[Bogertophis]

...
She didn't seem too receptive to the idea of it being hook worm related. Which confused me because it seems very easy to get reinfected with hookworms, since they can also burrow in through skin contact. But, like you said, it could be something else entirely.

After his 3rd dose of metro, he passed a bunch of those worms and other junk, and he was a pig. So the meds did something.....

Backing up to an earlier post of yours:

I think that all the 3 doses of metronidazole (aka Flagyl) did was stimulate his appetite & manage to "harass" some of his hookworms into leaving- they're not likely to be gone from Flagyl alone.

The more I think about what this snake has gone thru (all that Fortaz!) I have a hunch that crypto is not at all responsible for his regurgitation, which is good but now you have to get him cleaned out from the remaining hookworms, but do it GENTLY so his body can recover since his digestion has been thrashed. He needs some TLC x 100.

That his appetite came back ("he was a pig") after 3 doses of Flagyl is NORMAL & expected, but it doesn't mean he was rid of hookworms at that time. Think about it- just because he felt hungry didn't mean his stomach was in any shape to receive & digest his food either, so that's why he regurgitated. I'll say it again- antibiotics are not harmless- they're very hard on a snake's body. They kill the "good gut bacteria" needed for digestion & they're also hard on other organs (liver & kidney).

It's no wonder he's been losing weight- he's been sharing his food with worms PLUS regurgitating when he's tried to eat because his stomach needs help.

You might need a different vet's opinion if this one is as unreceptive as you stated. Sorry to say- but only you know if you can really communicate with her on this or not. I wish I had caught this earlier- but when you said your vet found hookworms, I assumed he was being correctly dosed to get rid of them, & that the Flagyl was in addition to that medication -to stimulate his appetite & clear other parasites he was likely to have. What would have helped in this thread is a one-post "time-line" showing his meds & his regurgitations- it's hard for us to keep it straight or to know how long meds were given.

[Awesomethepossum]

I also have to wonder if he would have NEEDED the Fortaz* (*at all, or for so many injections?) if his hookworms had actually been addressed? I think you need to ask your vet a lot of questions.

Also, has he kept ANY kind of food down (liquid or solid) SINCE he was done with the Fortaz? If that's what is causing his regurgitations, then I'd be tube-feeding him (Gerber's chicken diluted plus probiotics) for a while as it's easier for his stomach to handle. But since you just fed him, I'll keep my fingers crossed & hope he can handle it.

It was .04 ml each dose. I want to think I'm wrong about the timeframe for that, that I'm overshooting the duration, but it was no less than a month. They gave me a large bag of them. Honestly, it's hard to remember exactly, (I was pretty stressed out, to be honest) but I know I did stop giving it to him a few doses early because I wanted to focus on him eating

I keep records of all feedings and weigh-ins. He's been eating on his own since 10/7. He's eaten 15 times from then, up to this first regurg on 1/13.

During that span of time, he went from his lowest of 125g, all the way up to 258g by the end of November. This weight gain stagnated around early January because his appetite eased a bit, up to the last meal he kept down on 1/6, (which was right after a shed). As of Wednesday, he's back to around 150g.

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