Santa Isabel Ground Boa Baby - New Owner, Questions, Discussion, Pictures

[vkahri]

I do breed hognose and mountain kings, ....

I wanted a hognose to begin with but ended up with a bullsnake (who is an incredibly voracious feeder, all the time) and later this baby Isabele Ground Boa (who hasn't eaten for me yet).

(actually, I personally wouldn't feed WC live at all for fear of transmission of known or unknown pathogens, and even scenting with a CB animal is borderline IMO).

I concur, I have no intention of trying to feed anything wild caught. Besides, its winter here, there are green anoles in my area but they are not going to be around till warm weather returns.

For the species I breed, there is a range of tricks, all of which I've tried:

live pinks
washing pinks
boiling pinks
braining pinks
scenting any of the above with canned tuna juice or KFC grease
scenting any of the above with lizard (anole, MG, house gecko, sceloporus), either live, frozen or pureed
feeding live of any of those lizards
....

Was wanting to try a live pink next but again, hard to acquire.
Washing pinks? Washing in what?
KFC grease??? Like from your bucket of chicken????
Scented with ...pureed lizard? ...lol I don't have a blender but... I imagine you put them into a blender?

I no longer feed live lizards, nor force feed or tube feed. The former is too risky, and the latter two not productive...

yeah, a live lizard, especially if not very small, I could see that being dangerous for my boa as tiny as he is. Which is why I've procrastinated trying to get one, how could I find one small enough?...
I really don't want to do any kind of force feeding if I can avoid it. I would go to the vet first and if they wanted to administer something I'd let them do it.

MGs might be a worthy food source, but the upkeep of a colony big enough to feed even one neonate snake would considerable. I've not bred anoles, but it is the same situation (compounded by the fact that anoles are much more equipment intensive and much more expensive to produce than MGs).

I do know they have a preference for anoles as babies, as their diet in the wild is generally geared towards lizards.
....
It may be worth looking into mourning geckos or anoles as a source to hopefully potentially tempt this little guy into eating.

I'm thinking of trying to acquire a small enough anole, or tree frog if I can't get a pinky to work, or some sort of small fish. A single MG usually runs around $30. No idea what an anole or tree frog would cost. If I can get him to eat a flavored pinky or small fish first, I'd like to try those before making a riskier purchase. I actually have 3 MG's as pets so it's hard to imagine buying one as a feeder, but I would if I had to. My three haven't really begun to lay eggs though they are mature. The largest has laid 3 but they all failed, one because it got knocked and messed up the position of the air sack inside, the other two got eaten before I could remove them.

I would really like to try a small type of feeding fish but I am leary of accidentally getting something that could be harmful, if eaten. Does anyone have any info or advice? Here is a quote from this site that I've been referencing:
"Earthworms, minnows, feeder guppies and tiny goldfish were all accepted as first meals by neonate Candoia." (from: http://www.kingsnake.com/candoia/book.html)
...Actually I'd love to try an earthworm too! No problem if that's not eaten. I just find it hard to believe my boa would go for that. And I'd have to get it from a bait shop, which is doable. But again, me with all the questions.... Do farm raised earthworms get fed anything that could be toxic to my boa? I mean do they put any supplements in the soil to make them grow bigger or have a certain appeal to fish, that is not natural?

I've never purchased fish to use as feeders. Has anyone experience with this? I can search online and see these examples being used for garter snakes: salmon, tilapia, trout, guppies.....If you feed salmon or tilapia, how do you do that? specifically, in what form of fish meat do you use? uncooked? canned? I mean you can not be specific enough for me here. Leave no room for doubt. Or if I get guppies or goldfish... Like a plain feeder goldfish or guppy you might offer to a Red Ear Slider (turtle)???

[vkahri]

Small update (if the link works)... I got some breeder info from Starscream which I'll be reaching out to later. But tonight I gave in and attempted force feeding a f/t fuzzy mouse tail. It took some patience but I did it, wasn't fun, worried about hurting him. Video clip is post feeding. I know a mouse tail isn't exactly nutritious but I feel better knowing there's something in his belly tonight.

https://youtu.be/0nPDnU8Qo0c

[Starscream]

I agree with your assessment in the video that he is looking scarily skinny. I really, really hope you can get something more substantial in him soon, even if force feeding is necessary. My heart goes out to both of you! Really hoping Inej's breeder has some advice that will help get him going.

[vkahri]

Thank you. And while force feeding is far from preferable, if I have to I think I'll try these. I'm looking forward to asking your breeder their thoughts on it.
https://reptilinks.com/collections/m...and-mini-links

[Malum Argenteum]

Washing pinks? Washing in what?
KFC grease??? Like from your bucket of chicken????
Scented with ...pureed lizard? ...lol I don't have a blender but... I imagine you put them into a blender?

I'm sorry I missed this when it was posted. Pinks are washed with regular Dawn dish soap, rinsed well and patted dry with a fresh paper towel. Yes, KFC grease from the bottom of the bucket. Scenting with a lizard is done by rubbing the pink on the lizard's body to transfer some of the scent, generally after the pink has been washed as above. Some people do use lizard puree, but I have not tried that.

Though I don't do this anymore with the species I work with except to administer medication, tube feeding is IMO preferential to force feeding. I've kept snakes alive, growing and in apparent good health for more than a year (at which point I gave up and euthanized) with a mix of chicken baby food, egg yolk and Repashy Calcium Plus (eyeballed amounts; no idea how much is the right amount) fed via stomach tube about 2x week. Very easy and relatively stress free for snake and keeper. It takes some research to figure out tube feeding -- find the glottis (really easy, and virtually impossible to miss and hit the glottis), measure down to stomach, get a practiced technique to avoid any coming back up -- and some equipment (I use a dosing needle set from Reptile Basics for small animals, and vet stomach tubes for larger ones).

There's a device called a pinky pump that macerates whole rodent prey and then runs it through a tube, though I've never used one and have read that they're a challenge to get to work well.

[Bogertophis]

...

Though I don't do this anymore with the species I work with except to administer medication, tube feeding is IMO preferential to force feeding. I've kept snakes alive, growing and in apparent good health for more than a year (at which point I gave up and euthanized) with a mix of chicken baby food, egg yolk and Repashy Calcium Plus (eyeballed amounts; no idea how much is the right amount) fed via stomach tube about 2x week. Very easy and relatively stress free for snake and keeper. It takes some research to figure out tube feeding -- find the glottis (really easy, and virtually impossible to miss and hit the glottis), measure down to stomach, get a practiced technique to avoid any coming back up -- and some equipment (I use a dosing needle set from Reptile Basics for small animals, and vet stomach tubes for larger ones).

There's a device called a pinky pump that macerates whole rodent prey and then runs it through a tube, though I've never used one and have read that they're a challenge to get to work well.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that finds "tube-feeding" to be much gentler than "force feeding", & I've had success with it on various snakes too. There's many 'opinions' shared to the contrary, but I have to assume it was mostly not from their own personal experience, or from doing it the wrong way (especially- not using the proper equipment- oh does that matter!).

Pinkie pumps- I have NEVER used one. I have heard of reptiles being killed or injured when the pump clogs, then suddenly & forcefully releases into the animal. So no thanks... but I'll happily share my tube-feeding method (write-up) with anyone who requests it.

[vkahri]

Still not eating... I've force fed fuzzy tails once every week and a half on average the past two months. Not sure what to do. Will a vet even be able to do anything for a snake the size of a worm? (like a big nightcrawler)....

[Bogertophis]

Still not eating... I've force fed fuzzy tails once every week and a half on average the past two months. Not sure what to do. Will a vet even be able to do anything for a snake the size of a worm? (like a big nightcrawler)....

I've tube-fed 7" hatchling desert glossy snakes before- let me know & I can pm you instructions if you want. Sorry your snake is being so difficult- some just are. I don't think your vet can do anything other than tube-feed it for you, but many snakes up-chuck their tube-feeding from handling stress & travel- it's best done by you at home. These are known to be difficult snakes- no telling how long it may take before it becomes an easy feeder for you, if ever- but we're all pulling for you.

[vkahri]

I would be interested in giving that a try. Thank you!
What I've managed to get into him on my own has been stressful on both of us.
I recently got a dozen more small pinkies. I'm just trying one a day, leaving them in the enclosure for him with different scenting techniques but I think they will all end up being wasted. I think they are too big to try force feeding. Others have told me he would have no problem eating them if I can get an eating response but I think they are too big for a snake that is probably weak from not eating. I'll try to get a photo later.

I have one or two micro repti links left I might try to get into him this week but it's harder to do than a fuzzy tail. They break up and I don't get the whole thing in. They would be way more nutritious than a tail though.