Another heat mat question

[aminevoo]

I feel kind of annoying for asking another heat mat question (even though I know these forums are meant for questions haha), but for some reason something's not sitting right with me about the temperatures on my BP's heat mat.
As I've stated in my previous threads, I measure the surface temps in my snake's tub almost everyday and I have 2 digital thermometers on both sides of the tub to measure the air temps. I've read on numerous other threads that since our internal body temperature is 98.6F, anything we touch that feels warm to us would be way too warm to the touch for a snake.
With this in mind, I'm confused about my heat mat because whenever I measure its surface temp the temp gun reads between 85-90 degrees throughout the mat (the center of the mat is closer to 90 and the edges are closer to 85), but if I put my hand on the surface of the hot spot I can feel its warmth.
In theory, if something is colder than 98.6 degrees then I shouldn't be able to feel warmth when I touch it...so why is my snake's hot spot warm to the touch?
Maybe I'm lacking some basic understanding/knowledge here lol, or maybe my temp gun isn't giving accurate temperature readings? (I bought it from Home Depot for $25 and I've heard that many people use cheaper ones with no problems, so I wouldn't assume it's faulty).
However, there was one time that I found him inside his hide on the hot spot and when I checked the surface temps the temp gun read 80 degrees at the hottest point....so I kind of freaked out and turned up my thermostat 5 degrees higher, and ~20 minutes later I checked his hot spot surface temperature again and this time it read 98-99 degrees! Which I know is WAY too hot so I immediately lowered the thermostat back to what it was originally set to (and the surface temps measured 89-90 once I changed the thermostat temp back).
By the way, my thermostat is set at 90 degrees to get my desired temps (85-90), and then I adjusted it to 95 degrees which caused that huge temp spike.
So I'm just really confused about why I keep getting such mixed readings from my temp gun and why I can feel the heat pad's warmth with my hand if it's measuring at 90 degrees max. It also doesn't seem right that the hot spot could've jumped from 80 to 98 degrees after I adjusted the thermostat by only 5 degrees...

Sorry if my explanation was a bit confusing, I don't really know how else to word it without making it even longer.
Side question: how hot is hot enough to burn a snake? The thermostat I use is Herpstat 2 which is very reliable, but the sudden jump from 80 to 98 degrees on the hot spot in the incident I described above made me a little worried.

[Lord Sorril]

...I'm confused about my heat mat because whenever I measure its surface temp the temp gun reads between 85-90 degrees throughout the mat (the center of the mat is closer to 90 and the edges are closer to 85), but if I put my hand on the surface of the hot spot I can feel its warmth.
In theory, if something is colder than 98.6 degrees then I shouldn't be able to feel warmth when I touch it...so why is my snake's hot spot warm to the touch?
Maybe I'm lacking some basic understanding/knowledge here lol, or maybe my temp gun isn't giving accurate temperature readings? (I bought it from Home Depot for $25 and I've heard that many people use cheaper ones with no problems, so I wouldn't assume it's faulty).

...So I'm just really confused about why I keep getting such mixed readings from my temp gun and why I can feel the heat pad's warmth with my hand if it's measuring at 90 degrees max. It also doesn't seem right that the hot spot could've jumped from 80 to 98 degrees after I adjusted the thermostat by only 5 degrees...

Sorry if my explanation was a bit confusing, I don't really know how else to word it without making it even longer.
Side question: how hot is hot enough to burn a snake? The thermostat I use is Herpstat 2 which is very reliable, but the sudden jump from 80 to 98 degrees on the hot spot in the incident I described above made me a little worried.

So, I had the same question 'Why does the heat mat feel warm to my hand?'. The short answer is: Your core temperature is much different than your skin temperature. Your skin temperature is reliant upon a variety of factors including the temperature of your muscles, the ambient value of your environment, and the distance measured away from your core. For example: The skin on your hands and feet are almost always colder than your forehead.

My heat mats will also read a variety of values if directly measured. I try to place my thermostat probe in the center of the heat mat, and then check the values inside the enclosure instead of trying to bother with measuring the heating element itself.

I couldn't tell you how high the temperature needs to be to burn a snake: I haven't done it. Long before you reach a physical burn you can inflict nerve damage. If we are talking ball pythons: I can tell you from experience that they show signs of stress above 88F. I calibrate my thermostats so that my hot spots do not exceed 90F as a maximum. A hot spot it nice to have for digestion, but, is not needed if the ambient temperature is high enough.

[aminevoo]

So, I had the same question 'Why does the heat mat feel warm to my hand?'. The short answer is: Your core temperature is much different than your skin temperature. Your skin temperature is reliant upon a variety of factors including the temperature of your muscles, the ambient value of your environment, and the distance measured away from your core. For example: The skin on your hands and feet are almost always colder than your forehead.

My heat mats will also read a variety of values if directly measured. I try to place my thermostat probe in the center of the heat mat, and then check the values inside the enclosure instead of trying to bother with measuring the heating element itself.

I couldn't tell you how high the temperature needs to be to burn a snake: I haven't done it. Long before you reach a physical burn you can inflict nerve damage. If we are talking ball pythons: I can tell you from experience that they show signs of stress above 88F. I calibrate my thermostats so that my hot spots do not exceed 90F as a maximum. A hot spot it nice to have for digestion, but, is not needed if the ambient temperature is high enough.

Thanks for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense now. His ambient temperatures have never gotten above 85 and the surface above the substrate (paper towel) on his hot spot measures 90 max IF he’s not in his warm hide. I noticed that if he lays in his warm hide for some time and I take the temperature while he’s still there, then the temperature either reads too cold (80 at the most) or too hot (97-98). He’s never showed any signs of neurological damage or stress though (besides the stress he had when I just got him) and he uses both sides of the tub pretty equally. So the drastic difference in temperatures that my temp gun reads whenever he’s still laying on the hot spot is what made me question if my temp gun isn’t accurate or something.

[cuddlykhajiit]

Thanks for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense now. His ambient temperatures have never gotten above 85 and the surface above the substrate (paper towel) on his hot spot measures 90 max IF he’s not in his warm hide. I noticed that if he lays in his warm hide for some time and I take the temperature while he’s still there, then the temperature either reads too cold (80 at the most) or too hot (97-98). He’s never showed any signs of neurological damage or stress though (besides the stress he had when I just got him) and he uses both sides of the tub pretty equally. So the drastic difference in temperatures that my temp gun reads whenever he’s still laying on the hot spot is what made me question if my temp gun isn’t accurate or something.

Why us he on paper towel? Is something wrong with him?

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[aminevoo]

Why us he on paper towel? Is something wrong with him?

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He’s on paper towel because I live in a very humid climate (Pacific Northwest) so I wanted a substrate that wouldn’t add to the already high humidity here. I considered aspen due to the fact that it naturally lowers humidity but I’ve seen quite a few people here on the forums and elsewhere not recommend aspen due to the risk of it getting inside the snake’s heat pits or impaction (I know the risk is really small but I got kind of paranoid about that). I also think I read that aspen molds easily? I could be wrong there I don’t remember.
I also keep my BP in a plastic tub that holds in humidity well itself, so if I added a substrate like coco husk I’m pretty sure my humidity would be in the high 80-90% at all times (my humidity is in the 65-78% range right now with paper towels).
The reason I didn’t opt for a glass tank is because glass isn’t known to hold heat in well, and they’re also more of a hassle to clean. So when I weighed all the pros and cons of the plastic tub and paper towel substrate, the pros outweighed the cons for me personally.
Another reason I chose paper towel was because I’ve watched multiple care guide videos that recommended everyone house their snakes on paper towel for the first 30 days after they get them in order to monitor their feces and see any mites more easily. So far I’ve only had my snake for a little over a month, so the first 30 days just passed and I haven’t noticed any mites or anything wrong with his feces, but I kind of just like how the paper towel is working out altogether.
However, I might consider switching him to a loose substrate further down the road once I do more research about the pros/cons of aspen. It’s just so far the paper towels allow me to have the perfect humidity for him. I’m also not worried about the enrichment factor of loose substrate because his tub has fake foliage and a big bridge thing he can climb through and over, but I’m totally open to upgrading his tub in the future if he needs it.

[cuddlykhajiit]

He’s on paper towel because I live in a very humid climate (Pacific Northwest) so I wanted a substrate that wouldn’t add to the already high humidity here. I considered aspen due to the fact that it naturally lowers humidity but I’ve seen quite a few people here on the forums and elsewhere not recommend aspen due to the risk of it getting inside the snake’s heat pits or impaction (I know the risk is really small but I got kind of paranoid about that). I also think I read that aspen molds easily? I could be wrong there I don’t remember.
I also keep my BP in a plastic tub that holds in humidity well itself, so if I added a substrate like coco husk I’m pretty sure my humidity would be in the high 80-90% at all times (my humidity is in the 65-78% range right now with paper towels).
The reason I didn’t opt for a glass tank is because glass isn’t known to hold heat in well, and they’re also more of a hassle to clean. So when I weighed all the pros and cons of the plastic tub and paper towel substrate, the pros outweighed the cons for me personally.
Another reason I chose paper towel was because I’ve watched multiple care guide videos that recommended everyone house their snakes on paper towel for the first 30 days after they get them in order to monitor their feces and see any mites more easily. So far I’ve only had my snake for a little over a month, so the first 30 days just passed and I haven’t noticed any mites or anything wrong with his feces, but I kind of just like how the paper towel is working out altogether.
However, I might consider switching him to a loose substrate further down the road once I do more research about the pros/cons of aspen. It’s just so far the paper towels allow me to have the perfect humidity for him. I’m also not worried about the enrichment factor of loose substrate because his tub has fake foliage and a big bridge thing he can climb through and over, but I’m totally open to upgrading his tub in the future if he needs it.

So the 30 day thing I understand, buy I have to disagree with the aspen thing. I've had and have every snake I've ever owned on aspen, never had a single issue with it. The only snakes I keep on paper towel are babies or snakes with medical issues. I personally live in British Columbia so literally a neighbor lol, I live in a Canadian rain forest and the humidity sits at 50% on its own so I only water during shedding and I never have grumpy snakes or sick snakes either, that being said they are in exos, my heat is fine as well even with glass. They sit at a steady 75 on the cold side and 90 on hot with uth. My main concern for the future is that the improper husbandry could lead to an unhappy snake. I'm a firm believer in trying your hardest to make an enclosure as natural as possible. Remember an animals needs are more important than what's convenient for us.

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[cuddlykhajiit]

He’s on paper towel because I live in a very humid climate (Pacific Northwest) so I wanted a substrate that wouldn’t add to the already high humidity here. I considered aspen due to the fact that it naturally lowers humidity but I’ve seen quite a few people here on the forums and elsewhere not recommend aspen due to the risk of it getting inside the snake’s heat pits or impaction (I know the risk is really small but I got kind of paranoid about that). I also think I read that aspen molds easily? I could be wrong there I don’t remember.
I also keep my BP in a plastic tub that holds in humidity well itself, so if I added a substrate like coco husk I’m pretty sure my humidity would be in the high 80-90% at all times (my humidity is in the 65-78% range right now with paper towels).
The reason I didn’t opt for a glass tank is because glass isn’t known to hold heat in well, and they’re also more of a hassle to clean. So when I weighed all the pros and cons of the plastic tub and paper towel substrate, the pros outweighed the cons for me personally.
Another reason I chose paper towel was because I’ve watched multiple care guide videos that recommended everyone house their snakes on paper towel for the first 30 days after they get them in order to monitor their feces and see any mites more easily. So far I’ve only had my snake for a little over a month, so the first 30 days just passed and I haven’t noticed any mites or anything wrong with his feces, but I kind of just like how the paper towel is working out altogether.
However, I might consider switching him to a loose substrate further down the road once I do more research about the pros/cons of aspen. It’s just so far the paper towels allow me to have the perfect humidity for him. I’m also not worried about the enrichment factor of loose substrate because his tub has fake foliage and a big bridge thing he can climb through and over, but I’m totally open to upgrading his tub in the future if he needs it.

Oh also your humidity is too high anyway, 50 to 60.

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[BlackBayouReptiles]

I set up a regular tank-style enclosure for a quarantine spot and put a heat mat on the underside. I also noticed what youre seeing and for mine I think it came down to uneven adherence to the bottom glass. I placed a towel under the tank so that the mat was sandwiched between the towel and tank bottom (while also helping to hold the tstat probe), at which point I started seeing more even temps,though still not what Im measuring in my rack tubs.

I already didnt think highly of heat mats but now Im really looking for some alternate heat source.

[cuddlykhajiit]

I set up a regular tank-style enclosure for a quarantine spot and put a heat mat on the underside. I also noticed what youre seeing and for mine I think it came down to uneven adherence to the bottom glass. I placed a towel under the tank so that the mat was sandwiched between the towel and tank bottom (while also helping to hold the tstat probe), at which point I started seeing more even temps,though still not what Im measuring in my rack tubs.

I already didnt think highly of heat mats but now Im really looking for some alternate heat source.

What brand?

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[aminevoo]

So the 30 day thing I understand, buy I have to disagree with the aspen thing. I've had and have every snake I've ever owned on aspen, never had a single issue with it. The only snakes I keep on paper towel are babies or snakes with medical issues. I personally live in British Columbia so literally a neighbor lol, I live in a Canadian rain forest and the humidity sits at 50% on its own so I only water during shedding and I never have grumpy snakes or sick snakes either, that being said they are in exos, my heat is fine as well even with glass. They sit at a steady 75 on the cold side and 90 on hot with uth. My main concern for the future is that the improper husbandry could lead to an unhappy snake. I'm a firm believer in trying your hardest to make an enclosure as natural as possible. Remember an animals needs are more important than what's convenient for us.

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I completely agree about prioritizing the animal’s needs over what’s convenient for us. What I meant by “the paper towel works for me personally” is that so far it’s been meeting the needs of the circumstance the snake and I are in (high humidity) compared to other people in other parts of the US who may live in much lower humidity areas. Not that I have an attachment to paper towels or aspen is too much of a hassle for me haha. Just a few days ago it was literally 90% humidity outside, and it’s usually in the mid 60% to upper 80% humidity outside in general. While doing my research on ball python care before I got him, I read that it’s possible to house your snake on paper towel or paper substrates their whole lives without them suffering or dealing with any issues as long as all their other needs are met. I’m not against aspen though, I just read numerous experienced (at least more experienced than me lol) ball python keepers not recommending aspen before which made me reconsider using it. I’m also aware that many keepers have been using aspen for years with no problems and highly recommend it, so I’ll honestly probably switch sooner than later and make sure the humidity stays in a good range.