Grow Faster, Breed Sooner? (NOT POWER FEEDING)

[GoingPostal]

I don't mean this to be an angry reply, but I have a few problems with this post.

Let me ask you this. If there's a plague of rats and your a snake will you eat a big one and wait another 5 days and eat another big one? How do we know that the feeding regime that seems to be the status quo is right just because it works? Mike Wilbanks wouldn't be this big of a breeder if he didnt do what was in the best interest of his animals, but why would you even breed reptiles if money isn't a motivator. Its the same thing as being a doctor and liking your job, you're still going to want to get paid. And also "many" is a large exaggeration for the people saying they were getting sold off, as it was only one user

("Of course it’s not forever. Just long enough to make money on them and then sell them to someone else.")

He also says why he only uses this technique on male

("ps…I have found no real advantage to growing females quickly. They will routinely breed at 18 months but I think it is better to wait until they are 2-3 years of age. They seem to have more eggs throughout their lifetimes and grow to an overall larger size if you wait to breed them.")



note: I used a few examples from the original thread.

Huh? Is this plague of rats so consistent that they are eating them daily but only for a year? I'm interested in feeding a diet that is closely aligned to what an animal would naturally eat, in those frequencies. I'm not sure that biggest breeder = best interest of the animals as that's rarely true in other species from my experience, what would you say he does over and above other breeders for his snakes? It may have been the same person repeating, I scanned it quick and am not part of that forum but my question was more about the answer, did he give any info as far as lifespan, breeding rates long term, any issues, any necropsies done and the results? Does he still have those males even? It's interesting that people feel feeding them daily is ok if they are willing, but breeding females young isn't because then you get fewer eggs long term, so it's not really about what the animal is willing to do at all, it's solely the dollar factor. I can't speak from that regard, I don't breed and I wouldn't breed for money if I did as it's not my interest.

[Bogertophis]

... I scanned it quick and am not part of that forum but my question was more about the answer, did he give any info as far as lifespan, breeding rates long term, any issues, any necropsies done and the results? Does he still have those males even?

It's interesting that people feel feeding them daily is ok if they are willing, but breeding females young isn't because then you get fewer eggs long term, so it's not really about what the animal is willing to do at all, it's solely the dollar factor. I can't speak from that regard, I don't breed and I wouldn't breed for money if I did as it's not my interest.

My impression (& I might be wrong?) was that this "experiment" is fairly recent- ie. there is no data yet to be had as far as any possible influence on longevity for the snakes, so that's an obvious reason why he didn't answer this...because he couldn't yet determine long term effects, if any? BPs can live a very long time- into their 40's, but they mostly don't. And unless you did a really big study (with many more animals), it would be hard to tell what other factors were also involved, wouldn't it? Snakes longevity might well be related to their fancy morphs too, or something in the air or water where they're raised, or any number of other things besides how often they ate when they were hatchlings. And I don't foresee anyone funding such a study, any time soon, do you? Sometimes people just want to share their observations so that the experience of others may add to them in years to come.

I'm also not convinced that it's all about the "dollar factor" & the # of eggs. Female snakes in the wild may well breed earlier, but they sure don't live as long either. For nature, it's about replacing oneself so that some percentage of offspring carries on. When a female snake is pushed into early breeding (whether by human intervention or a persistent male snake in the wild) before she has finished* physically growing, that can impact both her health & the size and # of eggs she can produce. (*I do understand that snakes grow their entire life, but when they reach their optimal adult size their growth slows down- that's what I meant by "finished" growing.) From the snake-breeding I've done, I can tell you there are always some eggs that are bigger, more robust than others, & the snakes that emerge from them tend to be healthier & stronger too. It's not easy trying to raise wimpy, undersized snakes, & in the long run, common sense tells me that the undersized snakes may not do as well- certainly that would be true in the wild. So rather than being about # of eggs (ie. profit), my take on it is that it's all about breeding for the healthiest off-spring AND caring about the health & well-being of the female breeders. That's why when I bred a few snakes in the past, I waited until they were good sized adults, not just barely big enough to get the job done. I wanted to minimize the chance of the females having any trouble, like egg-binding.