Live feeding: in-tank or separate tub?

[kalismami]

Typically I know almost immediately if mine is going to eat or not. If he's eating that rat is wrapped in 5-10 minutes, and I usually remove after 20-30 if he's not showing any interest. Of course feeding live you never want to walk away, even for a second, while the rat is in there. I really want to stress that point, that you never EVER leave a live feeder in with your snake without you watching. When you're on fuzzies and pups you'd probably be okay, but I'd always rather play it safe.

Try to feed at night, I prefer 9pm as that's several hours after the lights in my reptile room go out. I like to leave the rat in a container in the room so the scent is out there. Most of the time my guy is coming out of the enclosure when I open it to look for the rat. I'd also recommend getting a good pair of metal feeding thongs to redirect any bites that may occur if you're going to continue feeding live.

Also to what Nikkubus said, maybe try rearranging the enclosure on a day you're not feeing. I have plenty of clutter in my tank but if my guy comes out of his warm hide and takes a left, there's a good size "clearing" where I typically put the rat. That way I can see what the BP is doing, I can see what the rate is doing, and if he tries to run off and hide somewhere I just gently redirect him with the thongs.

I also want to say before anyone jumps in and starts the F/T vs Live feeding debate, that this is just the method I use, that works for me. Feeding live isn't for everyone, and it's not for every snake. This works for me and my animal, and is why I continue doing it. It's up to each and every keeper to find what works for their animal, and ask long as you're willing to put the extra time into it to make sure it's safe, you should be fine.

thanks so much for this! I will definitely try feeding at night instead and metal prongs seem helpful too bc I hate touching the rats. Her pickiness is a recent development and live feeding has been smooth sailing for me u til recently, seems more low maintenance and when she wants to eat she strikes within 2 minutes—the one time I fed her frozen it did not go that well.... Also, so many people have warned me about rats attacking my snake but this has never been an issue for me! One time I had a rat chew through its box when I was doing some pre-scenting and I wasn’t around so my roommate panicked and just put the rat in the cage with her but she didn’t want to eat and by the time I got back the rat was asleep in the cage with her �� I obviously checked her thoroughly for any bites/scratches and found none.

[kalismami]

I don't feed live anymore for a number of reasons but I'm not going to try and change your mind. It's your choice. I used to do it simply because back then I didn't know f/t even existed and at the time I wasn't comfortable with killing the rat myself for pre-killed. I think removing the animal from their enclosure is a lot more disruptive than removing some items, but I still think removing the items is probably pretty disruptive, especially if you say you are trying to give "enrichment" through the hunting process. I understand wanting to be able to observe and make sure the rat isn't attacking him, so I think the solution might be to change what you have in the enclosure so it's still cluttered and feels like it has "hiding spots" to her, but you can still see what's going on. This is not really an option if you want things looking really naturalistic, but you could use translucent plastic hides that give them the cozy feeling of a burrow and block some light, but you can still view, and then whatever else like plants and things are in there aren't so cluttered that you have huge blind spots.

If you change your mind about live feeding, here is my method to thawing that makes things really easy (I have a lot of snakes to feed, especially when I've got a bunch of hatchlings, and I don't have time to waste):
-One or two days before feeding depending on the size of rodent I take the prey items I will be feeding out of the freezer and put them in the fridge, so I don't have to mess around swapping water over and over to keep it thawing safely.
-About 15-20 mins before feeding I put the prey (still in a ziplock) in a large pot of hot water and set myself a timer on my phone and go do something else while I wait.
-Timer goes off, I feed the snake, and unless it's a hatchling or snake I'm trying to switch to a different food, I just offer the item and it's usually struck immediately. If not, I set it on a hide and close the enclosure up and go about whatever I need to do and check back an hour later or so and grab it out to throw away if it didn't get eaten.
To me this process is a heck of a lot easier than dealing with live rodents, which I still do from time to time for stubborn hatchlings.

If I don’t have success with this next live feed I will certainly try this method instead. When she is being a good eater live feeding is pretty easy because I just dump the rat in straight from the box and she will strike within a couple minutes so the process is super quick and I don’t have to touch a rat. And I’ll prolly get some hate for sympathizing with rats on a reptile forum but I am an animal lover and for whatever reason having my snake do the deed of killing the rat feels much more humane to me that pre-killing a rat or having to manhandle a rats corpse. However I’m super sick of figuring out what to do with the rats she refuses considering she is my one and only snake so I don’t have anyone else to feed them to. Also, I appreciate the advice on decluttering a bit but I am too attached to having her cage look pretty �� I can watch through the mesh top and will probably just block the entrances to her hides only for the duration of the feed and maybe just take out only her vine of fake plants, hopefully that won’t stress her out too much.

[dakski]

Funnily enough I go to a super pet friendly college so I have actually found people who have asked me to “adopt” the rats my snake has refused...not sure how well an inbred feeder rat would do as a pet but who knows ! I have also just set one free, it literally frolicked in the grass. I guess live feeding is starting to become a pain because of things like this but before she got so picky I used to consider it much more low maintenance! Just not sure if she would even eat a dead rat since she never has.

I do not offer live food, for a variety of reasons, but a big one with BP's is what to do with the rats if the do not eat. Another is easy storage of food (I have 7 snakes though, so it's a bigger issue than with just 1).

Fine if you can find people to "adopt" rats that do not become food, but I wouldn't count on that.

Letting a feed rat go into the wild is not the best idea, to say the least, and IMO, is irresponsible to nature and probably that animal as well.

Snakes generally do not eat dead prey in the wild. However, many in captivity do learn to and could care less. They do not enjoy killing, nor do they like the "hunt." They do not have the brain capacity for enjoyment. They do like to eat because it equates to survival. The idea of a snake killing for enrichment is archaic and anthropomorphizing at it's best. Snakes kill to eat. Period.

If you are going to feed live, be responsible about it. That means feeding the snake in his/her enclosure (that's why you started the thread) because it's best for the snake, not leaving a live meal unattended at all, because that's what best for the snake, and finding humane ways to deal with live rats. They are living creatures too. Yes, they are snake food, and nature can be cruel, but don't compound the problem. See if your pet store will take them back, etc. or start feeding F/T which is generally safer for you snake anyway. It also solves your disposal issues. Not sure what you have against thawing a rat out, but that's your prerogative.

[dakski]

If I don’t have success with this next live feed I will certainly try this method instead. When she is being a good eater live feeding is pretty easy because I just dump the rat in straight from the box and she will strike within a couple minutes so the process is super quick and I don’t have to touch a rat. And I’ll prolly get some hate for sympathizing with rats on a reptile forum but I am an animal lover and for whatever reason having my snake do the deed of killing the rat feels much more humane to me that pre-killing a rat or having to manhandle a rats corpse. However I’m super sick of figuring out what to do with the rats she refuses considering she is my one and only snake so I don’t have anyone else to feed them to.

For what's worth. Good rodent suppliers of F/T prey, kill the prey humanely and relatively painlessly. In my opinion, it's better than being killed by a snake.

I think it is a good option for you.

Also, BP's tend to go on and off feed, so if you can get your BP to take F/T, the worst case scenario is throwing out a dead rat that was inexpensive to begin with. F/T rats are generally much cheaper than live rats.

[nikkubus]

I understand as someone who adores rats that handling dead ones can be intimidating, but it's no different than handling a human food item like a dead chicken/cow if you can work through the emotional part with logic. Somehow the snake has to eat, as long as the rat is killed humanely, there is no reason it's any worse to buy frozen than to let the snake do it's own killing.

I wouldn't introduce a feeder/pet rat into the wild for so many reasons. They don't have the natural selection a wild rat does and their chances of survival are pretty grim. If they do happen to meet up with a wild lady rat and mate, it's going to be passing those captive bred genes into a bunch of wild offspring and all of them are going to have a hard time. Letting someone adopt them is fine but if there are no takers it's best to find some backup like a person near you like another snake owner with a garbage disposal snake. I hate even wasting frozen/thawed if I can help it because it's a life that was taken for no reason, so I have a couple adult males that eat exclusively what other snakes have refused, and being mature they can handle the weird intervals of sometimes a lot, sometimes nothing for a month. They are way too big to be eating some of the stuff my young colubrids refuse, but now I've got my young retics to be garbage disposals for those small feeder sizes till they do a lot of growing haha.

[kalismami]

I do not offer live food, for a variety of reasons, but a big one with BP's is what to do with the rats if the do not eat. Another is easy storage of food (I have 7 snakes though, so it's a bigger issue than with just 1).

Fine if you can find people to "adopt" rats that do not become food, but I wouldn't count on that.

Letting a feed rat go into the wild is not the best idea, to say the least, and IMO, is irresponsible to nature and probably that animal as well.

Snakes generally do not eat dead prey in the wild. However, many in captivity do learn to and could care less. They do not enjoy killing, nor do they like the "hunt." They do not have the brain capacity for enjoyment. They do like to eat because it equates to survival. The idea of a snake killing for enrichment is archaic and anthropomorphizing at it's best. Snakes kill to eat. Period.

If you are going to feed live, be responsible about it. That means feeding the snake in his/her enclosure (that's why you started the thread) because it's best for the snake, not leaving a live meal unattended at all, because that's what best for the snake, and finding humane ways to deal with live rats. They are living creatures too. Yes, they are snake food, and nature can be cruel, but don't compound the problem. See if your pet store will take them back, etc. or start feeding F/T which is generally safer for you snake anyway. It also solves your disposal issues. Not sure what you have against thawing a rat out, but that's your prerogative.

I get your point about feeding not being enrichment but rather survival; it would have been more appropriate for me to explain that it is fulfilling for me as a pet owner to watch her hunt and display her natural adaptations! I care very much about my snake and am as responsible as I can be but she is my first so I have made mistakes—feeding in another Tub was one of them but the guy I buy my rats from advised me to do so but I’m glad I have learned more from you guys. And believe me I felt terrible for releasing the rat the next day, I just panicked since it was her first time refusing food. I have also taken them back to the pet store. And the rat thawing is just gross to me, that’s all. Plus when live feeds go smoothly the process is quicker but I’m realizing that repercussion of them not going well make it not worth it. I’ll probably be moving to f/t soon—but since she is so picky right now should I wait to transition until she’s eating regularly again? I don’t mean to overwhelm you with questions, but I just find it hard to find answers to thing like this with a simple google search and don’t want to continue making mistakes

[lovepig78]

Feed in the same tub, helps prevent missed meal and regurgitation... when feeding live I never leave the rodent unattended. If your snake doesn’t eat within 2 minutes, I remove the rodent and try again in an hour. If the snake doesn’t eat then.... there’s always next week.

[kalismami]

Well I was hoping to just figure out the separate feeding tub debate but it turns out all of y’all’s comments have swayed me towards changing what I feed with too! I guess it’s time for me to buck up and deal with the dead and frozen rats ... I don’t even eat meat or anything like that which is why I was so resistant to having to handle a dead rat bc it’s just out of my comfort zone and gross to me but obviously I’ll do whatever is best for my snake. And I know I was dumb for releasing a rat but like I said this is a new situation for me since my snake has always been a good eater. Thanks everyone! PS I have a couple pictures of my girl Kali and her kingdom in my gallery if anyone cares to look...I like showing her off

[dakski]

I get your point about feeding not being enrichment but rather survival; it would have been more appropriate for me to explain that it is fulfilling for me as a pet owner to watch her hunt and display her natural adaptations! I care very much about my snake and am as responsible as I can be but she is my first so I have made mistakes—feeding in another Tub was one of them but the guy I buy my rats from advised me to do so but I’m glad I have learned more from you guys. And believe me I felt terrible for releasing the rat the next day, I just panicked since it was her first time refusing food. I have also taken them back to the pet store. And the rat thawing is just gross to me, that’s all. Plus when live feeds go smoothly the process is quicker but I’m realizing that repercussion of them not going well make it not worth it. I’ll probably be moving to f/t soon—but since she is so picky right now should I wait to transition until she’s eating regularly again? I don’t mean to overwhelm you with questions, but I just find it hard to find answers to thing like this with a simple google search and don’t want to continue making mistakes

Some snakes switch to F/T right away, others it takes a little time.

Before we can answer about the switching part. How old is she? How much does she weigh? What food item is she on now (rat size)?

Then, when you are ready, we can tell you how to properly defrost and then heat and present the rodent so she thinks it's alive and is more likely to take it.

Just to be clear, it's your choice. If you think feeding live is better for you, that's fine. Just follow the safety guidelines and find proper homes/stores/etc. to take back the live rats.

It just sounds like F/T is much easier in your case, especially if your snake switches.

[kalismami]

Some snakes switch to F/T right away, others it takes a little time.

Before we can answer about the switching part. How old is she? How much does she weigh? What food item is she on now (rat size)?

Then, when you are ready, we can tell you how to properly defrost and then heat and present the rodent so she thinks it's alive and is more likely to take it.

Just to be clear, it's your choice. If you think feeding live is better for you, that's fine. Just follow the safety guidelines and find proper homes/stores/etc. to take back the live rats.

It just sounds like F/T is much easier in your case, especially if your snake switches.

yes I agree it’s looking like f/t will be easier. My snake is 2 years old and honestly I have no clue how much she weighs but I’m fairly sure she’s over 4 feet and is pretty thick, I have pictures of her in my gallery. She eats medium rats right now and is teetering on needing to move up to large ones, but I’ve noticed there’s a lot of discrepancies with the sizes depending on where I buy my rats from.