California Kingsnake Feeding help

[Bogertophis]

One reason I'm asking is because IF she is bigger/older than described, she might be happier taking a small fuzzy mouse than a pinkie. But ONLY IF her mouth is big enough. (Giving the best advice online is challenging since the snake isn't in front of me to gauge, but in your video she appears quite vigorous.)

[Cypris1]

Do you have a hatch date? I cannot tell her size from photos/video...can you estimate her length? Did you buy her from a breeder or a pet store? Did they give you a feeding record of any kind? (how many times she ate for them, what exactly she ate, & the dates she fed?) If she came from a pet store, how long did they have her on the premises? (or was she bred by them?)

On August 18th I asked them when her hatch day was and they said she was about 6 weeks old but they did not give me an exact date. I Think shes around 16-20 inchs but im likely Very wrong. I bought her from Imperial reptiles, when I asked them about her feeding records they said exactly "We feed either live or f/t pinks depends on what’s available to us that week. I would try a live pinky overnight. We feed every Friday." but they did not tell me any of her other feeding records other than that. Im not sure if their considered a pet store, but I dont know how long they had her or if she was bred by them.

[Bogertophis]

On August 18th I asked them when her hatch day was and they said she was about 6 weeks old but they did not give me an exact date. I Think shes around 16-20 inchs but im likely Very wrong. I bought her from Imperial reptiles, when I asked them about her feeding records they said exactly "We feed either live or f/t pinks depends on what’s available to us that week. I would try a live pinky overnight. We feed every Friday." but they did not tell me any of her other feeding records other than that. Im not sure if their considered a pet store, but I dont know how long they had her or if she was bred by them.

OK, that helps a lot. You want to try feeding a small fuzzy mouse, either live (most likely to succeed right now) or f/t small fuzzy, if that's all that's available. Most king snakes will take smaller than optimal mice (ie. pinkies) when they're hungry, but pinkies have less appeal (they're less developed & therefore have less scent). Keep in mind that most pet/reptile stores feed smaller than optimal to keep their young snakes from out-growing their small cages. California king snakes hatch out about 10-12" long...some are even as small as 8". It also takes a long time for them to gain much size when all they can eat is pinkie mice, because they aren't much nutrition. So if your snake is 16-20" long, she's more likely a YEAR old (most hatch in the summer), so right now, I'm not trusting your source (Imperial Reptiles) one bit...sorry. BTW, I believe your size estimate, from what I could see in your posts, but it's hard without specific & close-up items of a known size to compare to. Keep in mind that some pet store personnel may also refer to fuzzy mice as pinkies (because they're still pink & hairless)...they aren't all as "expert" as you'd hope or expect.

Being a reptile store, they jolly well had BETTER have all sizes of live mice available...so try a small fuzzy- EYES CLOSED, a little larger than a pinkie. King snakes have a smaller gape, ie. mouth opening, than say rat snakes of a similar age, so they eat pinkies for a longer time before they can up-size. IF all you can get is a f/t fuzzy, ask for some used mouse litter too, to add a fresher scent of mice right before offering (& after thawing).

If your snake refuses a LIVE fuzzy over-night (leave it in a bowl either in or near the opening of her hide) I'll be very surprised, but IF that happens, freeze* it & try it in a few days as a f/t. (*sorry, but there isn't any kinder way to "off" a pinkie or fuzzy mouse. FYI, they just go to sleep in cold, but they take "forever" to expire in CO2 or water because of their low oxygen needs.) Next time you buy a snake, find a better source- one that cares & is helpful. Not all stores, OR breeders, are the same- get references in the future.

Your snake did not grow to this size by not eating, so IF your snake still won't eat after this (trying fuzzies live & f/t), it may be also be sick. Let's hope not.

By the way, have you checked for mites on this snake? They're hard to see- that's another reason white paper towels are the best substrate for a new snake- while you assess their health; it's very hard to see mites in aspen shavings, etc.

Did this snake come with a guarantee? You might also think in terms of returning her for a full refund. Even if they say they don't do that, they probably do when you press the issue tackfully with a manager. Was she shipped to you? or did you buy her in person?

[Cypris1]

OK, that helps a lot. You want to try feeding a small fuzzy mouse, either live (most likely to succeed right now) or f/t small fuzzy, if that's all that's available. Most king snakes will take smaller than optimal mice (ie. pinkies) when they're hungry, but pinkies have less appeal (they're less developed & therefore have less scent). Keep in mind that most pet/reptile stores feed smaller than optimal to keep their young snakes from out-growing their small cages. California king snakes hatch out about 10-12" long...some are even as small as 8". It also takes a long time for them to gain much size when all they can eat is pinkie mice, because they aren't much nutrition. So if your snake is 16-20" long, she's more likely a YEAR old (most hatch in the summer), so right now, I'm not trusting your source (Imperial Reptiles) one bit...sorry. BTW, I believe your size estimate, from what I could see in your posts, but it's hard without specific & close-up items of a known size to compare to. Keep in mind that some pet store personnel may also refer to fuzzy mice as pinkies (because they're still pink & hairless)...they aren't all as "expert" as you'd hope or expect.

Being a reptile store, they jolly well had BETTER have all sizes of live mice available...so try a small fuzzy- EYES CLOSED, a little larger than a pinkie. King snakes have a smaller gape, ie. mouth opening, than say rat snakes of a similar age, so they eat pinkies for a longer time before they can up-size. IF all you can get is a f/t fuzzy, ask for some used mouse litter too, to add a fresher scent of mice right before offering (& after thawing).

If your snake refuses a LIVE fuzzy over-night (leave it in a bowl either in or near the opening of her hide) I'll be very surprised, but IF that happens, freeze* it & try it in a few days as a f/t. (*sorry, but there isn't any kinder way to "off" a pinkie or fuzzy mouse. FYI, they just go to sleep in cold, but they take "forever" to expire in CO2 or water because of their low oxygen needs.) Next time you buy a snake, find a better source- one that cares & is helpful. Not all stores, OR breeders, are the same- get references in the future.

Your snake did not grow to this size by not eating, so IF your snake still won't eat after this (trying fuzzies live & f/t), it may be also be sick. Let's hope not.

By the way, have you checked for mites on this snake? They're hard to see- that's another reason white paper towels are the best substrate for a new snake- while you assess their health; it's very hard to see mites in aspen shavings, etc.

Did this snake come with a guarantee? You might also think in terms of returning her for a full refund. Even if they say they don't do that, they probably do when you press the issue tackfully with a manager. Was she shipped to you? or did you buy her in person?

Oh I would have thought fuzzys would be to big, her width is a big smaller than my thumb (I think) and she is more around the length of 16 inchs, but im surprised that they would lie about the age of her since your saying shes around a year old, but I will pick up a live fuzzy with its eyes closed if they have any if not then a f/t fuzzy. Its quite mean for pet stores to feed them so little on purpose to make sure they dont grow. And I also dont trust Imperial reptiles now, when I first got her I had my full trust in them but now I dont think I will ever get a reptile from them again. When I change her water I could put a penny in there and put it on the wall and if she goes up the wall next to it you should be able to see her size.

Ok ill make sure the fuzzies eyes are closed and that I also get some of the bedding with it. If she does not take it I will freeze it, and ill make sure to buy from a better source when I get another snake in the future.

I would be very upset if I found out that she was sick, I did not check for mites as I was scared I would loose her or stress her out more than she already was from shipping, should I change her to paper towels?

She came with a live arrival guarantee and to be healthy on arrival, but they dont allow refunds or returns. She was shipped to me and I did not get a picture of her, I was shown a picture of what she Might look like.

their terms https://imperialreptiles.com/pages/terms-conditions

The page I got her from https://imperialreptiles.com/collect...kingsnake-baby

[Bogertophis]

Pinkies and fuzzies, by definition the eyes are closed. Fuzzies start to show their coat colors under the skin or may have a little bit of "fuzzy" hair, but eyes are closed.

FYI the next size up is hopper, eyes open, with hair & active, eating some solid food but not always fully weaned and at this stage they DO bite back. Sounds to me like
she can easily eat a fuzzy, and the extra activity might be what she's waiting for...just be sure the bowl is a good 2" deep. Even if it's a tight fit, she should be able to eat
a fuzzy at her size. She's so not a hatchling, but some sellers under-feed to keep them small so they can say it's a "baby", save $ on feeding it & keep it from out-growing
the small container it's in. There's no shortage of lousy sources when it comes to reptiles...big isn't necessarily better.

I'd rather see her eat first (before checking for mites) since you've waited this long...but do look on the white paper towels & in her bowl for tiny moving specks (red, brown or black). Pity you had her shipped to you...it's much easier to get a refund when you're IN a physical store on a busy Saturday with other customers listening in & deciding whether or not they "feel lucky" enough to make a purchase.

[Cypris1]

Pinkies and fuzzies, by definition the eyes are closed. Fuzzies start to show their coat colors under the skin or may have a little bit of "fuzzy" hair, but eyes are closed.

FYI the next size up is hopper, eyes open, with hair & active, eating some solid food but not always fully weaned and at this stage they DO bite back. Sounds to me like
she can easily eat a fuzzy, and the extra activity might be what she's waiting for...just be sure the bowl is a good 2" deep. Even if it's a tight fit, she should be able to eat
a fuzzy at her size. She's so not a hatchling, but some sellers under-feed to keep them small so they can say it's a "baby", save $ on feeding it & keep it from out-growing
the small container it's in. There's no shortage of lousy sources when it comes to reptiles...big isn't necessarily better.

I'd rather see her eat first (before checking for mites) since you've waited this long...but do look on the white paper towels & in her bowl for tiny moving specks (red, brown or black). Pity you had her shipped to you...it's much easier to get a refund when you're IN a physical store on a busy Saturday with other customers listening in & deciding whether or not they "feel lucky" enough to make a purchase.

Oh ok, no matter what its closed eyes.

I really want to get her on f/t befor she gets large enough for hoppers, I would hate it if I saw it attack her, I would prob kill the mouse myself. Ok maybe she does not want a snack (pinkys) and wants the nice meal of a fuzzy, ill make sure the bowl is 2" deep. Well its good that I now know that she is not a hatchling but stupid the fact that they would do that.

Ok ill wait for her to eat befor checking for mites, I would have bought the same type of snake from someone that lives near me but when I had looked at imperial reptiles reviews I saw only 1 bad review at that time but now that im looking for the reviews more theres alot of people saying that they were either sold a sick animal or the age was not what they said. And ya if it was in person it would be alot easier to get a refund

[Bogertophis]

I'm just hoping for the sake of your snake that you can make this all work...I assume this is your first snake? It shouldn't be this hard for you with a 1st snake...it just
shouldn't, & it's a tough lesson to learn. I have (in the past) bred a few kinds of snakes & sold the offspring, but they were always very well-started first, with a
written feeding record, care sheet, & date of hatch or birth; I was never "commercially-minded" about it...I cared "too much" about each snake being a success & prefer
just keeping snakes for fun (or working with rescues). You're pretty much stuck with this snake so I REALLY hope she didn't come with mites, but I wouldn't put much
past this source at this point.

Yes, mice or rats with eyes closed...totally safe to feed. Either one only bites back once their eyes open. (I've always raised my own rodents & used to sell them also.)

California king snakes normally accept f/t easily...it concerns me that yours doesn't want to eat despite not being handled & having proper hides & temps. You're correct
that you want her eating f/t before she needs to size up. You made a good choice for the kind of snake, just picked the wrong place & way to buy. Good luck!

[Cypris1]

I'm just hoping for the sake of your snake that you can make this all work...I assume this is your first snake? It shouldn't be this hard for you with a 1st snake...it just
shouldn't, & it's a tough lesson to learn. I have (in the past) bred a few kinds of snakes & sold the offspring, but they were always very well-started first, with a
written feeding record, care sheet, & date of hatch or birth; I was never "commercially-minded" about it...I cared "too much" about each snake being a success & prefer
just keeping snakes for fun (or working with rescues). You're pretty much stuck with this snake so I REALLY hope she didn't come with mites, but I wouldn't put much
past this source at this point.

Yes, mice or rats with eyes closed...totally safe to feed. Either one only bites back once their eyes open. (I've always raised my own rodents & used to sell them also.)

California king snakes normally accept f/t easily...it concerns me that yours doesn't want to eat despite not being handled & having proper hides & temps. You're correct
that you want her eating f/t before she needs to size up. You made a good choice for the kind of snake, just picked the wrong place & way to buy. Good luck!

Ya I really hope she will eat. Ya she is my first snake...

Its to bad that I didnt get one from people who care about the animal like you ):

Also im going to be waiting a few days to try feeding her the live, trying to soon will stress her out and make her definitely not eat. oh and when I was saying her width it is more like my pinky not my thumb, so quite a big difference there.

Ya since shes my first snake I of course wanted an easy one, turns out that theres always a chance an "easy" one will be hard. If I get another snake anytime soon ill be sure to buy it in person.

Also, the first few weeks I had her all she did during the day was search for an escape route, yesterday I noticed that she was starting to calm down, like she is not searching around as much and instead in a hide, does this mean shes getting more used to her environment since shes not searching for an escape as much? Ive heard thats true for Ball Pythons but im not sure about kings

[Cypris1]

SHE ATEEEEEEE

I put the live pinky in an hour ago and watched the camera like a hawk and I got to watch her eat the pinky!! ;D

Im so happy and I 100% know that she ate ovi because I watched lol

I have a small recording of her eating but the file got cut in half cause I did record her striking but thats ok

After I left the room she immediately poked her head out from her water dish lol

https://r3---sn-hp57yn7y.googlevideo...Zn7&ir=1&rr=12

https://r3---sn-q4fl6nss.googlevideo...RRn64KeY8lo%3D




Then she came back for seconds! But there was no second pinky lol

https://r3---sn-q4fl6n7e.googlevideo...lPJdh_TiGWU%3D

I just wanted to say, thank you. Thank you so very much for all the help that you gave me! I would not have been able to do this without you!

[Cypris1]

Even more great news! She was going back to the tupperware I had put the live pinky in so I figured she was hungry again, I only have f/t atm so I put one in a ziploc bag in room temp water, the bag was broke making the pinky in the actual water so I thought she would not take it since the scent was likely washed away but I didnt want it to go to waste so I silently put it in there just in case. About 20 mins later she found it and ate it! Guess she just needed to eat once to get her feeding started!