Rescued Ball Python Eye Issues

[Kethith]

Hello,


I’ve been using the forum as a resource for the past year or two, but this is my first post. The information you’ve all provided to other posters has been invaluable. I just want to say hello and thank you all. Okay, on to the purpose of this post.


Quick explanation:
I rescued a ball python who was very dehydrated, amongst other issues, and thought to be blind. I couldn’t even see her eyes when I first inspected her because they had sunken into her head. After getting her home and drastically improving her husbandry, her eyes started to be visible again and I could see that she had a large number of retained eye caps. It was difficult to determine the state of her eyes under the retained eye caps, but it seemed that she could at least see light and shadows as she responded to things moving around her more than I would expect with just using her heat pits. Last night, she had a complete shed in one piece and shed all of her retained eye caps. I can now see her eyes much more clearly. They appear to be flat and very milky—one more so than the other—but I can now see her pupils following motion. She does seem to be able to see more, which seems to be kind of freaking her out.


Do any of you have experience with a case like this? Have you seen a snake with multiple years of retained eye caps recover any of their vision? Can I expect any improvement in the shape of her eyes? Are they a danger to her health going forward? Is there anything I should keep an eye out for? Do you have an other advice that I’m not thinking of?


Full explanation and current care:
At the end of January, my wife and I rescued a ball python. This is our second ball python and our fourth snake, but our first rescue. We were told her estimated age is 15, she was eating small f/t rats every other week without incident, she had changed keepers at least 5 times—starting as a class pet—and she was believed to be blind. While her keeper cared about her, she had not done any research about the animal she was keeping and had gotten all of her advice from the previous owner, who had apparently also not done any research.


She was kept in a large glass aquarium, 48x12x20, with a screen top that had not been covered in any way to retain humidity. They had a heat mat that was not regulated by a thermostat and a night heat bulb on opposite ends of the terrarium. The light fixture had a dimmer, but it was on full blast and I could tell from the set up and the temperature of the room she was kept in that she did not have access to the proper temperature range anywhere in the enclosure. She only had a single hide, a heavily calcified water bowl, and a piece of driftwood she could climb on to get closer to the heat bulb. They did not monitor humidity in any way and their only means of monitoring heat was one of the round analog thermometers that they had positioned in the middle of the back wall of the tank, right below the top. She was kept on repticarpet that was kept permanently wet in an attempt to increase her humidity. She’s been kept this way for at least 6 years and the full setup was given to the keeper by the keeper before her, so probably significantly longer. She had mild scale rot on her belly but no open sores or blisters surprisingly, and looked to have some mouth rot that was not particularly advanced. I did not observe any symptoms of an RI, but I fully anticipated that this would reveal itself once she was in our care. Overall, it was quite difficult to assess her condition due to how dehydrated she was. Her scales were completely matte and felt a little papery. Her mouth could not close all the way as her lips were pulled back from her gums and her eyes were completely sunken into her head to the point where they just looked like tiny scars. I thought she looked significantly overweight, but couldn’t assess her body condition well because she was so dehydrated. All of her weight was just sitting on her wrong, if that makes sense. All of this being said, she was strong and responsive and I decided I was going to do whatever I could to give her a good life.


We brought her home and put her in quarantine in a separate room from our other snakes, heavily sanitized the enclosure with F10SC (she was large enough that I didn’t want to put her in a tub for quarantine and our quarantine room is not temperature regulated the same way our snake room, making it difficult to attain proper ambient temps in a plastic tub), covered a little more than 2/3rds of the screen top with aluminum foil to retain humidity, covered the back and sides of the tank with foamcore, threw away the repticarpet, set her up on paper towels, got her a new water bowl and a cool hide, removed the driftwood, added a humid hide, changed out the heat mat, regulated the new one with a thermostat, replaced the night bulb with a ceramic heat emitter and moved it to the same side as the heat mat, dialed in the dimmer to achieve the proper floor temps and the best ambient temps I could get, set up a reptifogger on a timer to automate her humidity cycle, put in an order to Animal Plastics for a quick ship T8 PVC enclosure and a ProProducts radiant heat panel, and started treating the scale rot with Vetericyn + for reptiles. After watching for about two weeks to confirm that she did not have mites, I changed out the paper towels with reptile prime as I was having a difficult time maintaining the proper humidity range since I live in the high desert. I am checking her floor temps with an infrared thermometer, checking her ambient temps and humidity with a digital thermometer/hygrometer at the ground level (currently I only have one on hand, so I’ve been switching it between her hot and cold side throughout the day until I get another), and using a probed digital thermometer between the substrate and the glass to keep constant track of her hot spot. The floor temps, other than the hot spot, are 87.2 on the hot side to 79.4. The surface temp hotspot is between 85.5 and 88 when measured with infrared thermometer and 88.3-90.6 measured by the probed thermometer between the glass and substrate. Ambient temps go from 83.1 on the hot side and 77.2 on the cold side with the absolute low being 75.9 on the cold side at night. This is colder than I aim for, but I don’t want to push up the ceramic heat emitter any higher since the top of her hide is registering 89.5. I know this will improve when her animal plastics enclosure arrives and she moves out of quarantine and into our snake room. Her humidity ranges from 46% just before the fogger kicks in again to 92% right when the fogger finishes running, but hangs at an average of 55-60% throughout the rest of the day. Not ideal, but this will also be much more consistent when she is in her animal plastics enclosure as I will no longer have to rely on the fogger.


The speed of her recovery was truly amazing. Within a week, her eyes were starting to be visible again and I could see how many retained eye caps she had, her mouth could close all the way, she passed quite a large but healthy looking poop and several urates, she was hiding comfortably throughout the day and switching between her hot and cold side, she learned to use the humid hide, her scale rot started to improve, and she started to look like a normal ball python with the way her body held her weight.


We scheduled the first available appointment with a vet in our area that specializes in exotics with a specific focus on snakes. It was a little over a week and a half after we brought her home. This was my first appointment with this vet, so I was skeptical, but he handled her with a very practiced hand, demonstrated his knowledge, had me go over my husbandry, and sent me home with some silver sulfadiazine cream to treat the scale rot and have on hand so that we can treat any future skin issues before they become a problem. He told me he thought the mouth rot was minor enough to be corrected with proper temps and that there were no current signs of an RI to worry about, but to keep a close eye on it. He checked her eyes and confirmed that there were multiple layers of stuck shed, put some of the silver sulfadiazine on her eyes, and said he wasn’t sure he could give me any information on her eyes until after her first shed with us and he could see them better. I asked lots of questions to confirm he knew what he was doing. After this appointment, I’m reasonably confident in the vet’s knowledge, but I also know that my own knowledge is limited, so I will continue to be careful and do further research on his recommendations.


I am also offering her f/t small rats to ease the transition. I’ll likely stay on small rats and give her more options to exercise in her tank once she’s out of quarantine to attempt and help her lose some of the extra weight. She didn’t strike the first rat we offered her, but she showed interest. I left it in the tank and she ate it later that night. She did not take the second rat she was offered, but I believe she was starting to go into shed.


Last night, she had a complete shed in one piece and appears to have shed all of her retained eye caps when I checked the shed skin. She had another healthy looking poop and urate. I can now see her eyes much more clearly. They appear to be flat, or at least not as rounded as my other ball pyton’s, and very milky—one more so than the other—but I can now see her pupils following motion. She does seem to be able to see more, which seems to be making her pretty nervous. It’s a bigger scary world now that she can see some of it. I will be offering another rat on the 8th or earlier depending on her behavior. We have a recheck scheduled with the same vet on the 13th so that he can get a look at her eyes.


Do any of you have experience with a case like this? Have you seen a snake with multiple years of retained eye caps recover any of their vision? Can I expect any improvement in the shape of her eyes? Are they a danger to her health going forward? Is there anything I should keep an eye out for? Do you have an other advice that I’m not thinking of?


Thank you so much for looking over this post. If you read the full explanation, I can be a bit long winded, but I really wanted to be sure to give you all of the information.

[Kethith]

It wasn’t accurate to say this is my first post. This is my first thread. I will post a picture later this evening.

[Kethith]

Ambient temp is actually going as high as 84 on the hot side.

[Bogertophis]

I've seen "too many" BPs with retained eyecaps and damaged eyes over the years- at this point, your best bet would be taking her to a veterinarian who specializes
in herps...their opinion & suggestions would be far better than we can do here as regards her health & future, especially since we aren't even seeing the snake.

When I have more time I'll read your full post...it's a little hard on the eyes ("wall of text") and it's time for my dog's walk & our dinner.

[Kethith]

I've seen "too many" BPs with retained eyecaps and damaged eyes over the years- at this point, your best bet would be taking her to a veterinarian who specializes
in herps...their opinion & suggestions would be far better than we can do here as regards her health & future, especially since we aren't even seeing the snake.

When I have more time I'll read your full post...it's a little hard on the eyes ("wall of text") and it's time for my dog's walk & our dinner.

Thank you, I have taken her to a vet who specializes in small pets and exotics with a particular focus on snakes.

He seems to know what he is doing, but I have had my own horror stories with vets who “have a reptile focus” and I’ve read enough of other people’s to be pretty wary. He instructed me to set up a follow up appointment after her first shed with me because it was too difficult to even see her eyes with all of the retained eye caps.

She just shed and shed all of the eye caps it looks like, so the appointment is scheduled for the 15th.

I’m a technical writer by trade, so I’m not surprised that I went too far with my original post. I tried to provide as much information as possible. If I could edit it, I would add more paragraph breaks for ease of reading.

[Bogertophis]

First off, what a lucky snake she is that you've taken her in! She's coming along already...it's amazing what proper care can do, & how resilient many snakes are when
they don't have it. I might be wrong, in fact I hope I am, but I don't think her eyes will regain their roundness. I do recall seeing a rescue BP many years ago with eyes
like that, but it wasn't mine & I don't know the outcome. One thing about most snakes including BPs...they do use vision to see motion & help them determine if it's prey
or predator nearby, but they don't rely as much on vision as most people think. BPs use their heat sensing pits, their acute sense of smell & their sense of touch to give
them information. It's a great sign that this snake is at least eating, & absolutely amazing that all the old eye-caps came off with the shed.

I can imagine just how weird it must be for her right now, after essentially being "blindfolded" for so long, to have improved vision. It's so sad to me that people keep
animals captive without ever making the effort to do it correctly, & long-winded or not, I'm so glad you've joined us here to share your experiences. Please do keep us
updated?

[Bogertophis]

...
I’m a technical writer by trade, so I’m not surprised that I went too far with my original post. I tried to provide as much information as possible. If I could edit it, I would add more paragraph breaks for ease of reading.

Actually, I'm overjoyed that you're here...you'll make some of my answers seem reasonable & brief. (Actually dakski is a serious contender for long posts too... )

FYI, you've only got about 10 minutes immediately after posting to edit your posts on this forum, so you have to think fast.

[dakski]

Actually, I'm overjoyed that you're here...you'll make some of my answers seem reasonable & brief. (Actually dakski is a serious contender for long posts too... )

FYI, you've only got about 10 minutes immediately after posting to edit your posts on this forum, so you have to think fast.

Really?

[Bogertophis]

Really?

That's not a bad thing, you have lots to share about your animals. Anyway, I suspect that's faux-surprise on your part.

[dakski]

Thank you, I have taken her to a vet who specializes in small pets and exotics with a particular focus on snakes.

He seems to know what he is doing, but I have had my own horror stories with vets who “have a reptile focus” and I’ve read enough of other people’s to be pretty wary. He instructed me to set up a follow up appointment after her first shed with me because it was too difficult to even see her eyes with all of the retained eye caps.

She just shed and shed all of the eye caps it looks like, so the appointment is scheduled for the 15th.

I’m a technical writer by trade, so I’m not surprised that I went too far with my original post. I tried to provide as much information as possible. If I could edit it, I would add more paragraph breaks for ease of reading.

Good news on shedding the eye caps.

I agree reptile vets can be hit or miss, but this forum is a decent barometer of whether the advice given is sound or consistent. So is common sense and asking questions and probing the vet's knowledge.

Paragraph breaks are great on this forum, FYI. Not that I would need them as I only write short posts.