I'm at an impasse so I seek outside opinions.

[pbenner]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've posted, this is mainly due to being far too busy to think about much else other than the rapidly expanding Rat Breeding that I've been doing. Pet rats are funding my vacation it looks like, while culls feed the collection.

One of the local ladies that I've bought feeders from is also a smaller ball python breeder who earlier this year picked up a collection from someone and has offered me a deal that I am leaning towards taking. The deal is shaping up like this:

I receive (2) adult female snakes from her, these snakes being a Mojave Pastel Spider Hypo and a BEL (from a Mojave het Hypo to a Mojave Black Pastel het Hypo). In exchange, I will pair them to my Banana Enchi Hypo male and split their first clutch from each female with her.

I know that the offer is serious as these are two girls that she has duplication on all their genes. She would be getting some good genetics and I've be getting into the breeding game about a year or two in advance of my original timeline.

I know that there are pros and cons to doing this, so I am here to get more input than I can get out of my own thoughts.

I am financially ready to take all this on, I've already got the adult rack on order and should be here within the next month. I'd be buying an Incubator for pickup at the Fall Tinley show and going that route.

Is there any reason to NOT do this? Worst case, any excess babies I could easily just pass off to her for sale through her existing channels and she's totally okay with that.

Thanks again for all your help. I appreciate you all greatly.

Best,

Paul

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I hope you know her very well and that you both put your relationship above snake breeding and possible financial gain, I have seen friendships go down the drain with breeder loans or deal like those, I have seen people drug through the mud because of drama and usually anything what is posted online is there to stay and will follow you forever all because people agree on certain things and than change their minds, they want more they get greedy etc.

So are you willing to deal with drama if things go wrong?

[mdb730]

Breeding loans can be tricky and stressful. I prefer to go at it alone, if I fail it's on me plus there is so much that can go wrong with a breeding loan. I think it's too risky for me to bring in outside animals, I quarantine all new arrivals for 6-9 months specially since you say she recently picked up these animals herself. At the end of the day a breeding loan would last about 16 months for me. It's not worth it to me to take care of someone's snake and feed them for that long. I would do all the work and end up having to give them half my clutch. If you decide to go that route I suggest you work out everything in advance and have it notarized. Include everything that can happen during this period and address it. Work out who gets first pick of the clutch, what happens if the snakes get sick or if it dies. This may sound like a great idea but unless you really know the person and will be working closely with them it's not worth the headache.

[Bogertophis]

As others stated very well, there are big risks in doing this & no way to know the future: this could be a great deal or a real (& lasting) headache. Wish you luck
with whatever you decide, especially if you go for it. Totally agree with writing up the details in a signed & notarized agreement ahead of time, because these are
living creatures & things can go wrong, even among friends if that's the case. I can see how tempting this is, but also would worry about quarantine etc. And in
splitting a clutch, do you draw straws for who picks first, or what?

[pbenner]

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I would receive to keep the female girls, she would receive back to keep the major portion of the first clutch from each girl to keep or sell. It is highly unlikely that I would hit something from either pairing that I would want to keep myself (Rare chance of a female banana as an example) and that's already been discussed. She doesn't want these females as she doesn't need them. I considered her a friend well in advance of her offering this type of deal. I asked her if she knew anyone that was possibly looking to sell one or two adult females that I could practice with and she offered me this.

Her brother is an attorney, so we could easily get it written up in such a way that neither of us are at risk if the group thinks that is for the best, but at the end of the day I don't need the monetary gain from these clutches so much as I would relish the experience gain first and foremost. Even if I kept not a single baby, it would cost me next to nothing to feed these girls as I produce more than enough feeder rats now. Even if I didn't manage to produce a clutch the first year, I'd be able to try again and still be ahead of schedule with little to no monetary loss on my part.

I deeply thank you three for your input so far, sorry that I was not clearer before this point.

Best regards,

Paul