First time owner - How is my setup?

[tptad]

Hey everyone, I'd like to start off by saying I have zero experience with ball pythons (all snakes, really), but I am fascinated and eager to learn. I tend to go a bit over the top with things that interest me. As an example, I have been researching ball pythons for about a month now - reading as much as I can on forums, watching videos, talking to owners, and visiting my local reptile stores. There is an expo in Denver next month and I'd like to pick up my first snake. I want to ensure that I have everything I need and enough knowledge to give the snake proper husbandry. I am going to list my equipment and give some of my thoughts as well as list some questions/concerns that I have regarding each. Before you all castrate me and burn me at the stake, I have done the research and I understand many of these concerns have been addressed numerous times. I would like a second opinion given my specific situation as well as a single repository, if you will, of information applicable to me. Many thanks in advance.

Enclosure: Animal Plastics T8 (4 x 2 x 1), sliding glass door w/ lock, divider, pre-installed white LEDs

I wanted the T10, but shipping would have been almost x3 longer. Personally, I think the T10 would look better on display with the extra height. I am impatient - won't deny it. It seems *most* people recommend the T8 or similarly sized plastic enclosure for BPs. From what I understand, the plastic enclosures are much better for holding in necessary heat and humidity. Speaking of heat, I am opting to go for a single heat source, a radiant heat panel from Pro-Products. Bob over at Pro-Products is recommending the appropriate size RHP based on the questionnaire so I feel confident that this aspect of the setup is good to go. How many of you are just using an RHP? There seems to be a big debate on whether or not a second heat source is required such as an UTH. A UTH under the hide on the hot side of the tank is mainly to aid in digestion? A major argument I've come across that supports the idea of skipping the UTH is that they are not efficient enough to heat through various substrate - people are often having to "crank up" the heat in which case could do a lot of harm to the snake if he/she decides to burrow. I'd like to get some opinions on this. The snake will be small when I get it so I've opted for the cage divider. I can remove the divider as the snake gets larger to accommodate it or, if I fall in love with them, get a second snake for the other side. If I decided to house two snakes in the T8, I would purchase two smaller RHPs and mount them in the middle of the tank in order to still be able to provide a temperature gradient. Bob over at Pro-Products said this is a viable option that people tend to do. What are your thoughts? Is the enclosure large enough to support two BPs or is it necessary to purchase an additional T8?

RHP: Pro-Products (waiting on Bob's recommendation for size/wattage)
UTH: In case I do want/need to add this heat source, what would you recommend and why?
Temp gun: I'll pick up one of the highly recommended models most snake owners use to measure a proper temperature gradient.

Thermostat: Herpstat 4

Pricey, but in the event I want to get a second BP, I think this is a smart choice. For a single BP, I plan on controlling the RHP, humidity, and lights. I would still have the option to control a second heat source as well. Has anyone used the humidity probe on the Herpstat? This was one thing I didn't find a lot of info on. Would it be better to just purchase a standalone AcuRite hygrometer? I live in Colorado and humidity is pretty low, but I don't think I'd use a misting system. I'd rely on the radiant heat and a water bowl, spraying the substrate, as needed, to accomplish acceptable humidity levels.

Substrate: I think I am going to go with some type of coconut substrate. I'd get the larger stuff so the smaller snake has less of a chance of digesting it. With my low levels of humidity, I am thinking this is my best option to aid in increasing humidity. Can anyone chime in here and recommend something else or let me know if my logic is somewhat correct in selecting this substrate?

Hides: I want two identical hides, one on the hot side of the enclosure and one of the cool side of the enclosure. No open log type stuff; snake will feel more secure in something that is closed all around and is just large enough to comfortably fit inside. Seems like a lot of people get some dollar store bowls and cut out a small hole for the snake it enter/exit. I'm not much of a DIYer and I don't mind spending the money on something professional. With that being said, can anyone recommend a hide?

General decor: A lot of BP owners that I know and have talked to don't really keep anything inside their enclosures. Some substrate and a couple of hides. Why? I want my enclosure to be a good show piece but also simulate a somewhat natural environment. These snakes are generally shy so having a larger enclosure is not typically recommended unless there is plenty of coverage for the snake to hide and feel secure, right? So why not add some plants, sticks, decor, etc? Is this to minimize cleaning efforts? Just personal opinion? Your thoughts are welcome on this subject.

I know this is a lot of information. I just want to make sure I am able to provide my snake with the best possible environment. I understand this is a long term commitment and I want to start off on the right foot. Please understand I am asking these questions for the betterment of the snake. Okay, no go ahead and roast me lol.

[JRLongton]

Just my opinions based on what has worked for me.

I use only RHPs, and I buy them from Pro-Products, as they are the best. No secondary heat sources for me. I tried that when I was first starting out and found that the UTH was a total waste. It never went on as the RHP supplied all the heat needed.

Its smart going with the divided T8. I have a divided PVC enclosure heated with RHPs now and it works fantastic.

ISSUE: It's great that you're thinking ahead about that second snake and that you can just place them into the other half. Now, this could work, but you will be breaking quarantine by doing so. After a thermostat, quarantine is probably the second most important rule. You don't want to learn the hard way.

A divided T8 with sliding glass shares plenty of gas exchange with both sides. Any airborne illness or mite will easily pass from one side to the other. That plus every time you slide the glass, it will slide into the space of the other half, creating another avenue for contamination.

It sounds like you're ready to hit the ground running with your first snake. You don't want to get a second animal several months down the road and find that you've created, ah, unpleasantness for your first animal, with whom you've bonded. I've had a bad experience and can tell you that there are unscrupulous people in this hobby that will knowingly sell you a sick animal. Not many, but it only takes one.

That's one thing I'll point out. I'm interested to hear what the rest of the community has to say.

[tptad]

Thank you for the information. I completely overlooked the need for proper quarantine. I wouldn't get a second ball python until I am competent and comfortable enough to manage a second snake so hopefully that is some knowledge I would have gained between now and then. Would you say it would be a better idea to have two separate hinged doors that come down instead of a sliding glass door when using the T8 to house two snakes? I did a little reading on the mite problem - how to spot them and whatnot. Is this generally an issue when perusing a reptile expo? I could see this being a problem at some of the bigger pet stores that don't really have experienced personnel taking care of the snakes, but I would hope an actual breeder would not have this problem. Thanks again for the info!

[JRLongton]

I did a little reading on the mite problem - how to spot them and whatnot. Is this generally an issue when perusing a reptile expo? I could see this being a problem at some of the bigger pet stores that don't really have experienced personnel taking care of the snakes, but I would hope an actual breeder would not have this problem.

Mites can be an issue at expos. I don't think the problem is so much the breeders as the re-sellers, but I really shouldn't speculate.

I think there is less of an issue with separate hinged doors. But, to be perfectly frank, newly acquired animals should be kept in different rooms altogether or at least far apart. With only two snakes, it's less of a concern, especially if you buy them both from the same breeder. Make your own call.

I say stick with the divided T8. You want a hatchling? Well the divided T8 will serve you life long. You can start in just the half. When ready you can move them up to the full. Plus a divided enclosure will give you flexibility in the future.

Since nobody else has chimed in, substrate. Expect to need to experiment with this before you pick up your first noodle. PVC enclosures hold humidity really well. I use aspen and find that I can regulate humidity with water bowl placement. I tried coconut (Eco-Earth) and Forrest floor, but it was WAY too humid. Within hours it was practically raining inside the enclosure. For a few days, during a shed cycle, that'd be great. But everyday? No, you'd be asking for an RI or scale rot. But you may find things are different in your area. Try different ones for a few days before hand and see what works.

[Jmarshall]

If the point of the divider is to house two snakes that’s not going to work with the rhp as the sole heat source. I don’t think a 2 ft wide enclosure will give enough space for a proper gradient.

I house my single yearling ball python in a T10 with a pro product rhp as the only heat source. I have the herpstat set to 88 with the probe dangling under the rhp. The thermometer near the hide reads 88-90 degrees and the cool end reads 78-80 degrees. This time of year my humidity naturally sits around 50% under the rhp and about 65% on the cool end without misting.

Your set up sounds very similar to mine including the use of a herpstat 4. I’d recommend one snake to the T8 and get another to stack on top if you want an additional snake.


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[JRLongton]

If the point of the divider is to house two snakes that’s not going to work with the rhp as the sole heat source. I don’t think a 2 ft wide enclosure will give enough space for a proper gradient.

Pro-Products sells appropriately sized RHPs for a 2x2. They're 50w and are 12x10 (or so, I might be a bit off). I'm using one now for my boa and the gradient is perfect. 90 directly under and 77 at the edges of the cool side.

[Jmarshall]

Pro-Products sells appropriately sized RHPs for a 2x2. They're 50w and are 12x10 (or so, I might be a bit off). I'm using one now for my boa and the gradient is perfect. 90 directly under and 77 at the edges of the cool side.

But if you removed the divider at a later time as the snake grew would it output enough power to keep proper temps?

And I know they make rhps in different sizes.. good to know a 2 foot length would be big enough for a proper gradient. I assumed it would be too small considering the temps In my 4 ft enclosure are perfect.

Edit: typos


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[JRLongton]

Yeah, you would need a new RHP for the full T8. A 50w would never do it.

So you're right, there is that drawback. It's good you pointed that out as I over looked it.

In my dealings with Bob at Pro-Products, the guy really knows his stuff. You tell him what you want to heat and to what temp, and he has the exact thing you need.

[Jmarshall]

Yeah, you would need a new RHP for the full T8. A 50w would never do it.

So you're right, there is that drawback. It's good you pointed that out as I over looked it.

In my dealings with Bob at Pro-Products, the guy really knows his stuff. You tell him what you want to heat and to what temp, and he has the exact thing you need.

Yeah, I had the exact same experience with him. I definitely recommend his products with full confidence. He makes it so easy! Stand up guy.


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[tptad]

I say stick with the divided T8. You want a hatchling? Well the divided T8 will serve you life long. You can start in just the half. When ready you can move them up to the full. Plus a divided enclosure will give you flexibility in the future.

Since nobody else has chimed in, substrate. Expect to need to experiment with this before you pick up your first noodle. PVC enclosures hold humidity really well. I use aspen and find that I can regulate humidity with water bowl placement. I tried coconut (Eco-Earth) and Forrest floor, but it was WAY too humid. Within hours it was practically raining inside the enclosure. For a few days, during a shed cycle, that'd be great. But everyday? No, you'd be asking for an RI or scale rot. But you may find things are different in your area. Try different ones for a few days before hand and see what works.

I'd like to start with a hatchling. I feel like the T8 is too large for a hatchling so that's why I opted for the divider. The plan is to house the adult snake in a full T8 or similarly sized enclosure (perhaps with more height).

Good point about needing to experiment with different substrates. I'll see what the general consensus is locally - we'll share the need for similar adjustments based on local conditions. A co-worker of mine uses aspen, but she says she has to change it out a lot because it gets moldy. She has to spray it a lot to keep up the humidity. I should also note that she is using a fish aquarium with a screen top and a moist towel covering about 80% of the mesh. Due to this setup, she likely has to wet the substrate more frequently than in a plastic enclosure. Have you personally experienced any issues like this when using aspen? Humidity inside my home is usually around 15-20% in the colder months and anywhere from 25-50% in the warmer months. It may be necessary for me to use a substrate that can easily boost my humidity levels inside the enclosure. Hopefully someone from Colorado can chime in!