Question for those who you barren tubs

[WhompingWillow]

I don't have a bone in this potential debate whatsoever, but I was watching a video the other day that contrasted bare bones tubs with decorated ones (let's just say BHB did not come out looking so great). Snake Discovery on YouTube has some awesome examples of how to make tubs and/or rack systems work in ways that are more enriching for snakes. It seems like it's possible to have the best of both worlds if you need the space saving a rack offers but still want some enrichment.

[Jmarshall]

I don't have a bone in this potential debate whatsoever, but I was watching a video the other day that contrasted bare bones tubs with decorated ones (let's just say BHB did not come out looking so great). Snake Discovery on YouTube has some awesome examples of how to make tubs and/or rack systems work in ways that are more enriching for snakes. It seems like it's possible to have the best of both worlds if you need the space saving a rack offers but still want some enrichment.

Yes! I really enjoy snakediscoveries tub set ups. I think they do provide more enrichment for the animals and it cant do anything but help the animals. I just fear that reptiles get labeled as "simple" and are given the cheapest most convenient set up for the keepers without the animals best interest in mind. That website and those studies were the most thorough i've seen on the subject.

[Bogertophis]

... more enrichment for the animals and it cant do anything but help the animals. I just fear that reptiles get labeled as "simple" and are given the cheapest most convenient set up for the keepers without the animals best interest in mind...

That's the problem...if you've decided that reptiles are "simple" & don't need enrichment to thrive, that's what you'll tend to "find" & justify. I'm totally with you on
this...snakes did not evolve in tubs, & in the wild they learn their way around to survive. How sad that so many don't think they might need more, but instead are
willing to just error on the side of their own convenience. How mind-numbing it must be to exist for years in a bare tub...and IMO, if that's all you have enough space
for, please don't get the pet. Just like other guidelines like having enough money to afford food & proper medical care when needed...if you don't have it, wait until
you do. Like sticking Betta "fighting fish" in a tiny bowl for life...just because they don't immediately die doesn't make it right. I wish empathy was a prerequisite.

To me, most of the fun of keeping snakes is not what fancy color they are & what can I breed them with to make "such & such",
but seeing them thrive in a realistic environment and seeing their behavior when challenged. I actually constructed maze-type hides
for a couple of my snakes when they arrived as hatchlings, and watching them explore & try each and every way in and out was as
much fun for me as it appeared to be for them. They also settled in quickly with regard to feeding...it was a sad day when they out-
grew them, but on to bigger "toys".

[Jmarshall]

That's the problem...if you've decided that reptiles are "simple" & don't need enrichment to thrive, that's what you'll tend to "find" & justify. I'm totally with you on
this...snakes did not evolve in tubs, & in the wild they learn their way around to survive. How sad that so many don't think they might need more, but instead are
willing to just error on the side of their own convenience. How mind-numbing it must be to exist for years in a bare tub...and IMO, if that's all you have enough space
for, please don't get the pet. Just like other guidelines like having enough money to afford food & proper medical care when needed...if you don't have it, wait until
you do. Like sticking Betta "fighting fish" in a tiny bowl for life...just because they don't immediately die doesn't make it right. I wish empathy was a prerequisite.

Completely agree. And again, I dont think there is anything inherently wrong with tubs.. But I do think they should be of adequate size and have more than a water dish.

Tbh, I was nervous about making this post but found the information I was reading interesting and thought it was pretty cool to see actual studies that shows the benefits of enrichment, in snakes, as well as other reptiles.

My hope is we can get some different perspectives on this from people with different points of view. Id like this to be civil. Im not trying to ruffle feathers.

[Lord Sorril]

Completely agree. And again, I dont think there is anything inherently wrong with tubs.. But I do think they should be of adequate size and have more than a water dish.

I totally agree

[Jmarshall]

I totally agree

If you don't agree with me (and thats completely fine), id love to hear your opinions on the matter instead of just mocking the topic. Also, I hope thats not your idea of an adequate sized tub :o)

[Lord Sorril]

If you don't agree with me (and thats completely fine), id love to hear your opinions on the matter instead of just mocking the topic. Also, I hope thats not your idea of an adequate sized tub :o)

I was demonstrating your point regarding enclosures that are too small and poorly decorated. It is laughable what some people consider appropriate.

[Jmarshall]

I don't have a bone in this potential debate whatsoever, but I was watching a video the other day that contrasted bare bones tubs with decorated ones (let's just say BHB did not come out looking so great). Snake Discovery on YouTube has some awesome examples of how to make tubs and/or rack systems work in ways that are more enriching for snakes. It seems like it's possible to have the best of both worlds if you need the space saving a rack offers but still want some enrichment.

Do you happen to have a link to the video? This topic of reptile welfare is extremely interesting to me and its something I am quite passionate about. It is funny considering I am an extremely green keeper.

[WhompingWillow]

Do you happen to have a link to the video? This topic of reptile welfare is extremely interesting to me and its something I am quite passionate about. It is funny considering I am an extremely green keeper.

This video does a great job of going over the pros and cons of each. https://youtu.be/hM15VUjqOWE

If you want examples of what I would say not to do with racks/tubs, you can pretty much watch any Brian Barczyk video.

[Jmarshall]

This video does a great job of going over the pros and cons of each. https://youtu.be/hM15VUjqOWE

If you want examples of what I would say not to do with racks/tubs, you can pretty much watch any Brian Barczyk video.

I agree. I love snake discovery and the way she sets up her tubs.