Is my ball python unique? (long story)

[Valyndris]

I put a lot of work into my ball python and throughout the years he has become more like a little person than a snake. So, I'll start from the start, my ball python was born July 15th 2013, and I adopted him when he was just a few weeks old, I named him Crowley. I kept him in a 10 gallon tank at first but after he got used to me and his new home I switched him to a 50 gallon tank, it didn't seem to stress him out at all as he loved exploring every inch of that tank. I used to take him out every day for 15 to 45 minutes, he enjoyed his time out with me and his time to explore. I used to have him out on the couch or the chair, he would always try to get into the couch and sometimes he has been successful which had me learn to always but a blanket over top the chair or couch.

After a few years I moved to a basement apartment with my boyfriend. Crowley has already started to become more humanized as he always wanted to come out when his light shut off, he would always be what I called "smushing" on the glass to come out for some "missions", these are the terms I now use when he wants to come out and play. So I started taking him out for his missions for 1 to 2 hours a day, he had a 2'x2' table to do his missions on with some perches and a cave, of course he never really stayed on the table so he also had our bed to do missions on. Giving him 2 hours of time out with us didn't stress him out at all, in fact he loved it. One day my boyfriend fell asleep on a chair right next to Crowleys tank and he actually came out during the day while he was shedding just to be as close to my boyfriend as possible, it was so adorable and to me that was a definite sign of affection.

In may of 2015 our apartment flooded and I had to bring Crowley to my moms place till we were able to find a new place. I'd come visit him about every second day at my parents place but I could only take him out for about 30 minutes at a time as he came out late and my parents went to bed early so I couldn't handle him as much as I used to. I would cry nearly every time I had to leave him alone at my parents place and go back to my crappy flood damaged apartment. I missed being with my snake all the time and I could feel that he missed us too.

We finally found a new place and moved in bringing Crowley in last, this was the first time I saw true affection from Crowley. He proved to me that snake really can be affectionate. You might have had to be there to believe it but to me he truly did show love and affection for me. He was so happy that the family was back together. That night when I took him out he came up to my nose and rested his head on it like he was giving a hug, he stayed in the position for minutes at a time. He did this for about a week after moving in. I believe he was just as happy to be back together with us as we were happy to be with him. At this new place we had a bed setup in the living room (instead of a couch) and we got him new stuff to play on. We got him a nice big java perch (made for birds but perfect for snakes too) he got a few more caves and of course had his old perches from the last place. So he now had a whole bed to play on and he now got an average of 2 hours of missions a day.

September last year we bought a house and also got Crowley a new tank which is about 52"x20"x22" which is much harder to maintain humidity and heat but I have the proper tools to do so, so it worked out great. Crowley also got his own room to do his missions in. A whole room just for Crowley, the first time i put him in there he looked so guilty roaming the floor but now he just absolutely loves it. He got a new stand (made for birds but works fine for snakes). Now I give him about 3 hours a day of missions, I try to limit to 3 hours as the heat and humidity isn't the same as inside his enclosure. I live in Cananda so it does get cold at times. None of that seems to bother him as he loves having his 3 hours out and when I put him back in his tank he just smushes for more missions. He does not stress out at all after being out that long and eats just fine other than when he takes a strike off food for the winter months. He has a heated tent in his room if he wishes to warm up and also a cave in his old tank in the room for when he's done his missions. Once he goes in that cave I know he's done doing his missions in the room so I give him a bit of cave time then put him back. If he's only been out for an hour or less I usually bring his cave to the couch in the living room and watch a show with him. He seems to love hanging out in his outside cave with me watching tv as when I put him back even though he looks missioned out he still smushes for more.

So the question I had was, does anyone else have a snake like this that just loves to come out and acts more like a little human than a shy timid snake? I put a lot of work into the 5 years I've had Crowley and was wondering if anyone else has a snake like mine, that just loves to come out and be with his humans and even after being out for over 3 hours, still wants more missions. This took years of work put into the snake to get him like this but he is now my little person and I love having him out every night with me. I know a lot of sites say over handling can stress a snake out but not this guy, he loves every second of being out and exploring.

[MissterDog]

I think you're anthropomorphizing him too much to the point you're misreading a lot of your snake's behavior as signs of "affection" which they do not have the brain capacity to do so, at least not the way you're hoping for from a mammal 's point of view.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade here but this may cloud your judgement on how to recognize stress in your snake because of how eager you are to project human characteristics on him. Not saying you are but I don't think this possibility should be ruled out.

In the end your pet your rules, you're free to believe whatever you want, but you might want to reconsider how you're perceiving things.

[Jellybeans]

Of course reptiles do not have the capacity to feel, in the way that say dogs or cats do. They are not mammals.
However, I do believe that you can gain a reptile's trust ( meaning that you are not a predator ) and they will tolerate and allow human interaction. Some definitely are more comfortable with their humans than others. I also do believe that they enjoy time out of their enclosures exploring or just sitting around.
To put it all in a nutshell; if you and your snake or whatever kind of reptile you have seem to be having enjoyable interaction, look at it however you want it's a win-win for both
I have my snakes for my pleasure & enjoyment and they have me for a lifetime commitment to their well-being, health, enrichment and happiness.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

[Valyndris]

I think you're anthropomorphizing him too much to the point you're misreading a lot of your snake's behavior as signs of "affection" which they do not have the brain capacity to do so, at least not the way you're hoping for from a mammal 's point of view.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade here but this may cloud your judgement on how to recognize stress in your snake because of how eager you are to project human characteristics on him. Not saying you are but I don't think this possibility should be ruled out.

In the end your pet your rules, you're free to believe whatever you want, but you might want to reconsider how you're perceiving things.

Maybe I am but in the end my snake is happy and that's all that really matters.

[MissterDog]

Maybe I am but in the end my snake is happy and that's all that really matters.

Of course, ultimately he is YOUR snake so I'm not here to convince you how to care for him. Rather just caution you to be careful on how much you humanize him because that could lead to possible misinterpretations of his well being. But if he's healthy and thriving in the end then yes, that's really the only thing that matters.

[Alter-Echo]

Ok, first off, as long as your conditions are correct, he has adequate places to hide, is shedding well, and is eating and pooping well, then you should be ok as far as not too much stress.

The majority of this forum are going to find the amount of attention you give this snake and and any perceived affection he may be giving you to be wrong. Most do not feel that snakes and most other non mammals have the ability to form bonds or feel love. They consider the brain structure to be too primitive to allow this sort of thing.

That said.... I do have reptiles that behave with what appears to be affection or as close as a reptile can get to being affectionate at least. I find this mostly in lizards and tortoises, but I have a few kingsnakes and a ball python in my collection that truly beg to come out and are perfectly content with being held... and they throw a fuss when I try to put them back too. I tend not to mention it on reptile forums much because it goes against popular opinion, but I have seen behavior from animals that shouldn't be capable of such over the years... stuff that really shouldn't be possible from such primitive creatures.... stuff that makes one stop and think sometimes. I dunno how it works... brain structure does not lie, but I have seen a snake that actually chose to be held over being fed... it only ate after crawling around on me for a bit. Weird as hell, but it happened every time.

So yeah, I believe ya.. not all snakes seem this way though, and it seems to be more common in some species than others, but I've seen it enough to think there might actually be some kind of affection involved, or at the very least a form of enjoyment or pleasure.

[Jmarshall]

Obviously reptiles are not mammals and should not be given emotion as such but there is research that shows a reptiles brain is not as simple as we once thought. I had read an article a while back that shows a study on reptilian brains and how they are not so different from our own.

https://massivesci.com/articles/liza...e-brain-human/

The study was done on lizards, not snakes, and what a reptile's brain is actually capable of is still TBD. I think the bottom line is we have no idea what they actually experience so it is important to treat all animals with respect and dignity. Do I think your snake experience "love" as you imagine? Absolutely not. Their brains are different and work in a different way than ours. I do think it is important to keep this in mind because, as was mentioned earlier, signs of stress can be missed. Your snakes "missions" could easily be a stressed out animal. Just food for thought.

[Jellybeans]

You've had your snake 5 or 6 years..
You know your animal.
Obviously it's healthy your healthy don't let people pick you apart.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

[Jmarshall]

I wasn’t trying to pick anyone apart. I simply stated we don’t know what our animals are experiencing and giving them human emotion can lead to improper care. The most important thing is to make sure their needs are met. I actually provided evidence that their brains are closer to ours than once imagined but they are different. Is it possible to think they may experience emotion? Sure, In their own little snakey ways. But it is different from mammals. Their brains are just different. I mean the OP did ask for opinions.

[distaff]

If you haven't come across it already, you might enjoy Carla's channel, OneSoftKiss. While her opinions and husbandry practices are not shared by many here, she works with her animals on a daily basis, and claims to have formed strong bonds with them.

Seems to me, there have always been two camps: the BF Skinner "Black Box" group, and the Konrad Lorentz group. Not much in common between the two. I start with the strictly impersonal science first, but if I see more, I'll trust my instincts.