First BP / First Shed / Stressed Behavior Question

[fadingdaylight]

I recently (19 days ago) got my first BP. I have spent every free moment pouring through the internet, the forums here, and books trying to absorb as much information as possible to provide the best care I can. That said, I think I may have made a mistake and I would appreciate feedback from the group here. My (unsexed/unnamed) BP has done incredibly well in terms of feeding (3 f/t adult mice in total, on a 5 day schedule). However, last Friday I went to handle it for a bit and found those blue eyes staring out at me, so I decided to leave it be, rather than add additional stress or risk affecting the shed. Monday was feeding day, so I went ahead and attempted to feed. The snake (I know, I hate it too, but I don't want to take it to be sexed until the shed is complete) struck once but missed slightly, then retreated as if no longer interested. Warming the mouse back up had little effect, so somewhere in my brilliant mind I decided that lifting the hide (warm side) might help induce the feeding reaction. Instead it prompted the snake to relocate to another hide (one of those ceramic half logs, meant for enrichment, not hiding) which is in roughly the middle of the enclosure, where the surface temp is about 2-3 degrees lower than being directly over the UTH in the warm hide. It has not come back out since, and it is now Wednesday morning.

It seems clear to me that lifting the hide was a stupid decision, my question for the group is, should I leave it alone and trust that the snake is regulating its temp, or should I try to get it back to the warm side. I have packed one end of the half log with damp moss to try to ensure good humidity in the current position, but past that, I am unsure of the right course of action.

Thank you all in advance for any feedback!

[Craiga 01453]

Yeah, lifting their hides is a surefire way to either a) get yourself bit or b) spook the snake and guarantee a refusal.

As for whether or not you should move your snake...let it be. They've survived thousands of years without us intervening. Your snake knows how to thermoregulate.

[fadingdaylight]

EDIT - the surface temp in the half log is 82, vs the warm hide at 86 (the damp moss is keeping it down a little in there).

[Craiga 01453]

EDIT - the surface temp in the half log is 82, vs the warm hide at 86 (the damp moss is keeping it down a little in there).

Okay, just a few little things:

1) you want to get that warm side up to about 89-90.
2) those half log hides are unfortunately no good for BPs. They prefer single entry cave style hides that offer more security.

VERY IMPORTANT: Are your heat sources regulated by a thermostat???

[fadingdaylight]

Yes, the UTH is on thermostat, and there is a small cave style hide over it (and about 2in of coco husk/cypress mulch mix). Outside of the hide, on the hot side, the surface temp is 89, with a tiny hotspot of 91 directly under the lamp. Using a timer to run 12/12 daylight/nightlight cycle, and maintain temps (exo terra 36/18/12). The half log was really just meant as filler since the snake is only around 24in, 210g, right now, I wanted to try to crowd the tank a little. There is also a cave type hide on the cool side, where surface temps get down to 76 at the lowest point in the back corner, but this one seems to only get used as a playground at night, then it's back to the warm side in the morning.

Ultimately, I realize that I went the wrong direction buying this tank to begin with, I was looking for aesthetics more than environment, and I am seriously considering putting together a tub and selling the exo terra off, but for the moment I am just trying to ensure a clean shed.

Sorry, forgot to do a quoted reply, haven't been in any forums for a few years...

[Craiga 01453]

Yes, the UTH is on thermostat, and there is a small cave style hide over it (and about 2in of coco husk/cypress mulch mix). Outside of the hide, on the hot side, the surface temp is 89, with a tiny hotspot of 91 directly under the lamp. Using a timer to run 12/12 daylight/nightlight cycle, and maintain temps (exo terra 36/18/12). The half log was really just meant as filler since the snake is only around 24in, 210g, right now, I wanted to try to crowd the tank a little. There is also a cave type hide on the cool side, where surface temps get down to 76 at the lowest point in the back corner, but this one seems to only get used as a playground at night, then it's back to the warm side in the morning.

Ultimately, I realize that I went the wrong direction buying this tank to begin with, I was looking for aesthetics more than environment, and I am seriously considering putting together a tub and selling the exo terra off, but for the moment I am just trying to ensure a clean shed.

Sorry, forgot to do a quoted reply, haven't been in any forums for a few years...

Ok. Sounds good. Is the heat lamp on a thermostat?

Also, I don't run day/night light cycles. BPs spend almost all their time hiding anyway. I just use the dark purple ones. I've been using them for years and run the 24/7.

[fadingdaylight]

Ok. Sounds good. Is the heat lamp on a thermostat?

Also, I don't run day/night light cycles. BPs spend almost all their time hiding anyway. I just use the dark purple ones. I've been using them for years and run the 24/7.

Right now the lamp is not on a thermostat, it will be soon, it's a 60w bulb and I have been monitoring the surface temps all over the enclosure, including on top of hides, etc, with a temp gun to ensure nothing is getting too warm. I had 100w bulbs for a day or two, but noticed that certain places were hitting 99-100, so I downgraded to 60w. They seem just barely capable of maintaining the correct temp when combined with the UTH. I will check out those purple bulbs though.

[JRLongton]

First and foremost, get that bulb on a thermostat. All heating systems need to be on a thermostat, always.

Personally, I don't do feedings when the snakes are in shed. My BPs go through the cycle pretty quickly anyway, a matter of days. They shed and poop, often enough inside the shed. I find it, clean up, and then feed.

The snake is eating so things are going generally well, but you might want to put more thought into your heating system.

Don't you find two heat sources needlessly complicated? Why have two thermostats when just one will do the trick? Plus there's the issue of a glaring 60w bulb. You need to run the thing 24/7, its going to blow out, the snake is nocturnal and likely isn't in love with it. I would really look for another option.

Here's a quick and inexpensive fix. Unplug the UTH, get a ceramic heat emitter (CHE), reposition the stat probe inside the tank, and plug the CHE into the thermostat. Your temp issue will disappear in hours.

Just a thought.

[fadingdaylight]

First and foremost, get that bulb on a thermostat. All heating systems need to be on a thermostat, always.

Personally, I don't do feedings when the snakes are in shed. My BPs go through the cycle pretty quickly anyway, a matter of days. They shed and poop, often enough inside the shed. I find it, clean up, and then feed.

The snake is eating so things are going generally well, but you might want to put more thought into your heating system.

Don't you find two heat sources needlessly complicated? Why have two thermostats when just one will do the trick? Plus there's the issue of a glaring 60w bulb. You need to run the thing 24/7, its going to blow out, the snake is nocturnal and likely isn't in love with it. I would really look for another option.

Here's a quick and inexpensive fix. Unplug the UTH, get a ceramic heat emitter (CHE), reposition the stat probe inside the tank, and plug the CHE into the thermostat. Your temp issue will disappear in hours.

Just a thought.

Incredibly inexpensive actually, considering I have the CHE already. I tried that too, still in conjunction with the UTH, but found temps getting too high. I never considered running it without the mat. The 60w bulbs are running 12 on 12 off, with a daylight bulb from 8am to 8pm, and red nightlight bulb from 8pm to 8am. But that red bulb seems to destroy my humidity.

In the end, I feel like most of my temp issues are the result of the glass tank with a vented front strip, but I know that red light is killing my humidity, there is always a heavy drop over night. I may go ahead and give the CHE a shot, my only concern would be its ability to warm the substrate under the hide effectively, that's where I like the UTH.

I appreciate all the feedback, the more I learn the better.

[JRLongton]

In the end, I feel like most of my temp issues are the result of the glass tank with a vented front strip, but I know that red light is killing my humidity, there is always a heavy drop over night. I may go ahead and give the CHE a shot, my only concern would be its ability to warm the substrate under the hide effectively, that's where I like the UTH.

Yeah, glass tanks can be difficult, but all the problems they present are surmountable. Some people even prefer them.

That CHE will heat the entire interior of the tank, but expect it to take longer for the substrate under the hide to warm up, it may take a few hours or so to reach the same temp as the rest of the warm side, but rest assured it will.

The 60w bulbs are running 12 on 12 off, with a daylight bulb from 8am to 8pm, and red nightlight bulb from 8pm to 8am. But that red bulb seems to destroy my humidity.

That's a lot of bulbs! If it were me, I'd scrap them all and go with one CHE, plugged in 24/7, and running on the thermostat. It's more efficient than incandescent bulbs also so it'll save on the electric bill.

Sounds like your doing well and let us know how the shed goes.