Help, possible PAM poisoning!

[Treeman]

Listening to your description I wasn't thinking that it was rapid, jerking motions like shown in the video. I was thinking more like a lump was slowly moving through, like a urate or poop being pushed towards the vent. But seeing that video, I'd think it'd have to be something muscular, like muscle spasms? Never seen anything quite like that, looks like a live rat is in there.

[pretzelpretzel]

i can only think of one thing... i treated him two days ago for mites because he had them, and the treatment label said don’t spray onto face but i did on accident. also after his treatment he sat in his water bowl for a bit and maybe he drank his water after and his body is reacting to being poisoned by it?? this is a stretch but i couldn’t think of it being anything else, unless it is just muscle spasms. i reallt don’t know lol


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[SquirmyPug]

It looks like muscle spasms to me. Could it be from itching because of mites?

[Bogertophis]

i can only think of one thing... i treated him two days ago for mites because he had them, and the treatment label said don’t spray onto face but i did on accident. also after his treatment he sat in his water bowl for a bit and maybe he drank his water after and his body is reacting to being poisoned by it?? this is a stretch but i couldn’t think of it being anything else, unless it is just muscle spasms. i reallt don’t know lol


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What did you use for mites? I'm thinking this could very well BE the cause of this weird twitching. Whatever is going on, it's NOT normal.

[pretzelpretzel]

i used provent a mite for the cage. i sprayed the inside of the cage with everything in it except the water, then i let it dry for about 30 minutes and then i put him back in. i treated him with natural chemistry reptile spray, which is meant to be sprayed on them of course, i lightly sprayed him then 20 mins later wiped off the excess with a towel


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[Bogertophis]

I'm not sure what's in Natural Chemistry but the fact you can spray it ON the snake suggests it's pretty harmless, & that the reason for keeping it out of their face
is mostly a matter of rudeness if you get it in their nose or mouth. PAM (Provent-a-Mite) on the other hand, is a potent neuro-toxin if a snake is exposed...they must
never come into contact with it (wet), and I have a hunch that if you only waited 30 minutes, there might have been a small spot here or there that was still wet when
you put him back in. I've never used the stuff as I've not dealt with any snake mites since before this stuff (PAM) was on the market, but my understanding is that
many who treat their cages with it allow them to dry for hours or overnight before introducing the snake back in, to be on the safe side. I think you might want to
consult a vet, to see if there's anything they can do at this point to neutralize his possible exposure & poisoning from PAM. I think this is the likely cause. A neuro-toxin could easily cause the symptoms you're seeing, & I don't want you to panic, but some snakes have been harmed (even killed) by exposure to PAM...it's not to be trifled with.

[pretzelpretzel]

on the label it says don’t let snakes get exposed to vapors, so i assumed once it aired out and mostly dried he would be fine, but i didn’t know how strong the product was and i should’ve let it air out longer. will def be calling the vet tomorrow


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[Treeman]

Gotta remember that even though these chemicals are as safe as they can be for reptiles, they are still meant to KILL other living things (pests), and so they do have dangerous things in them. In my opinion, always play it safe. If it says to air out the enclosure for 24 hours, I'd do it for 48.

Remember, inhaling aerosols is a no go! (flashback to being a high school idiot)

[Bogertophis]

on the label it says don’t let snakes get exposed to vapors, so i assumed once it aired out and mostly dried he would be fine, but i didn’t know how strong the product was and i should’ve let it air out longer. will def be calling the vet tomorrow


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If I remember right, most keepers spray PAM only on paper towels (not on the cage), let them dry, & then put them in the cage. I just know it has to be completely
dry. I so hope your snake will be OK. I just can't think of anything other than the PAM that could be the culprit...hope I'm wrong, & that his exposure was minimal.

[Bogertophis]

It's hard to find relevant articles addressing the effects of PAM (active ingredient permethrin) on snakes, since not many care about that...only about the effects
on people & "typical pets" or "wildlife" (birds aren't effected so much but it's highly toxic to fish), & of course, the insects it is used to kill.

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/PermGen.html

excerpt: How does permethrin work?

Permethrin can affect insects if they eat it or touch it. Permethrin affects the nervous system in insects, causing muscle spasms, paralysis and death. Permethrin is more toxic to insects than it is to people and dogs. This is because insects can't break it down as quickly as people and dogs. Cats are more sensitive to permethrin than dogs or people because it takes their bodies a long time to break it down.

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The above is why I think that PAM is the cause of the muscle spasms in your snake. Make sure he's well-hydrated, & right now I'd bathe him to make sure there isn't
any residue on his skin. Luke-warm water, gently soak with supervision & towel off. Let the vet know you're calling about an urgent issue (suspected poisoning) so
they don't make you wait to be seen. Ask if there's anything else you can do in the meantime?