Frozen VS Live

[Aether]

So out of curiosity I figured I would ask a simple question.

Live feeding vs frozen feeding? I would love to hear some interesting information I may or may not currently know.

As for my personal opinion, I am a firm believer in live feeding after I rescued my boy Larry. I had never had a snake before and at the place I worked a ball python with a tank and the whole kit and kaboodle was brought in and surrendered. As an employee I was offered to take him home for free. My manager told me nobody else would because he was too big and too much was unknown. So I decided I will take him and suddenly I have a full grown male ball python in my bedroom. It was mid-winter at this point and according to his old owner he hadn't eaten in 4 months. After spending a month or 2 trying frozen he refused and started losing weight. At this point I was very against live feeding but I didn't know what else to do. So i bought him his rat and dropped it in. Instantly he killed it and has not refused a single live rat since. He is actually in progress of nomming one down as I type this. Yes, I am aware winter fasting is common in ball pythons but his weight loss was alarming and the vet said I needed to assist feed or try live.

[Dianne]

I think live feeding has its place, but must always be supervised...and the owner has to accept the risk of injury to the snake, or worse. Early only I also fed live, back in 1991 not many folks were talking about prekilled or frozen thawed. After having my female Colombian redtail get bitten by a feeder and the subsequent infection and antibiotic injections, I switched to prekilled. Not fun and not always pretty or clean. You get better with practice.

A few years of prekilling the prey, and I start hearing about frozen thawed rodents. I made the switch for convenience and significant cost savings over prekilling. I had very little trouble switching my animals over. In 27 years of keeping snakes, at least 18 of those years have been feeding f/t. There has been the occasional snake that only ate live prey at first, but they were eventually switched over to prekilled then f/t. Currently one of my baby balls is still eating live fuzzies. I have a sub-adult bp that I got Labor Day weekend that is still refusing to feed. She’s maintaining weight, so I’m not too worried yet. She was said to have already been on f/t, so I’m not looking to backtrack to live if I can help it.

[CALM Pythons]

This subject has been beat over the head for years. In fact if you search this forum you’ll find probably 100 debates. The only time I would ever feed live is to jump start a snake that won’t feed or a snake that forever will not take frozen or fresh kill.
Especially since your talking about ball pythons who 99% of the time would never defend them selves.
Even if you broaden the species and you’re feeding a Burmese python rabbits, the rear leg power & claws on a live rabbit could gut them in a heartbeat.
Yes they all eat live in the wild, however, I assume we’re all talking about pets here who I for one don’t want to see you get hurt.


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[Craiga 01453]

F/T is the safer way by far. A F/T prey item will NEVER fight back. A live rat can do serious damage, sometimes even being fatal. Even if not fatal you could end up with serious injuries to the eyes, face or other areas of the snake's body.

F/T is also considerably cheaper in the long run.


That being said, there are times to feed live. As long as it's supervised and done responsibly.

[Cheesenugget]

I currently feed both, all but one eats f/t. The live is a hopper. For those eating f/t, I plan to keep it that way. For the one that won't eat f/t at this time, I plan to switch after a few more meals.

I don't think anyone should be too quick to criticize those who do or don't use live feeding unless that person is doing it for the joy of watching animals die. One should try to switch but if it won't take no matter what, and it is losing weight, so be it and try again later.

I truly believe that there is a small minority of snakes that just won't compromise no matter what. Some picky eaters like bp prefers live only and forever, others wants white vs black fur, and those who only mice over rats.

[Craiga 01453]

I truly believe that there is a small minority of snakes that just won't compromise no matter what. Some picky eaters like bp prefers live only and forever, others wants white vs black fur, and those who only mice over rats.

I am 100% in favor of feeding live as a jumpstart with I tricky eater, I've had to do it as well.
But based solely on what I've read here on this forum as well as other sources, it seems that feeding live in the UK is unheard of. I don't live there, but have read many times that this is the case.
Which leads me to question whether or not there are snakes that are "lifers" on live prey, refusing any other prey options. Or are we just doing things differently in the US than they are in the UK?

[alittleFREE]

I am 100% in favor of feeding live as a jumpstart with I tricky eater, I've had to do it as well.
But based solely on what I've read here on this forum as well as other sources, it seems that feeding live in the UK is unheard of. I don't live there, but have read many times that this is the case.
Which leads me to question whether or not there are snakes that are "lifers" on live prey, refusing any other prey options. Or are we just doing things differently in the US than they are in the UK?

Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure it's illegal to feed live prey in the UK.

[Craiga 01453]

Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure it's illegal to feed live prey in the UK.

I've heard that too, but then heard it's not an actual legal matter, but just one of those "unwritten rules".

Which makes me think that with time, patience and proper technique any animal can be switched. But again, no hands on experience, so not too sure.

[Skyrivers]

I do pre-killed that is twitching still for picky feeders. The twitch works nicely to get their attention.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I feed both, depends on the species, depends on production etc.

Both can be done safely if you are educated about it and do it responsibly, I have been feeding well over 35000 live preys, (F/T I am not sure) and never had any issue. But all that is really behind the point here.

The real point is how can you get your BP on track.

Now when it comes to YOUR issue YOU DO NOT ASSIST an animal that age that knows how to eat unless there is a health issue that requires it. Ball python are know to fast and it can last a long time and depending on the weight it can be ok even for 6 months or a year the issue here is that you are not providing any info at all.

The first thing to look into is husbandry make sure everything is perfect (perfect to you might not be optimal so giving some details, for male during the winter season a little trick to ensure that they will eat is to downsize their enclosure to the smallest size possible that may mean something like a 15 quarts tub for a 900/1000 grams animal. Yes it is tight but as a temporary measure that works it is ALWAYS worth a try.

Now not knowing the background on the animal it is very possible that it has fed live it's entire life which means right now that is what you will likely have to feed, because adjusting to a new environment, entering winter/ breeding season can be a little too much to decided to switch now. A well established animal that feeds for you will switch a lot easier than one that is not.

What is the weight of your BP?
How big is your enclosure?
How tight are your hides?
What substrate do you use?
What are your temps?
etc

Now if it was mine here is what I would do.

Find the smallest tub for it's size (if he is 1000 grams or less I would get a 15 quarts tub), I would have coconut chip bedding (such as reptichip), have a hot spot of 88 cool spot of 78 and let him settle for a week.

Once a week has pass I would offer a F/T Mouse (not rat) and do it as followed, thaw at room temp near the enclosure, grab the mouse from behind the neck with a pair of feeding tong, warm it up with a hair dryer (make sure it is warm enough) and offer in the tub by moving the mouse around like if it was alive (hence why you need to grab it from behind the neck)


Off topic but

Yeah, I'm actually pretty sure it's illegal to feed live prey in the UK.

It's not, not how the law is written just are animal activists in England interpret it and try to use their interpretation to convince people of that. And if people repeat it enough online some may believe it.