Concerns about my new BP - Please help!

[ErostheSnake]

You really need a temp gun. The surface of your hot side could very well be in the hundreds.


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[Zincubus]

Hello! I am new to this whole thing and have been trying to read as many of these threads as I can. I purchased a male BP at a reptile convention on July 28th. I was told his hatch date was January 22, 2018, so he was 6 months old. I had a cage all ready for him, which I have since learned is much too big (40 gallon). I left him alone to acclimate for a week, and then tried feeding him. I put him in a small plastic tub with a thawed hopper mouse. He ate it after a couple minutes, no problem. Fast forward to the next week, I did the same thing and he ate again, no problem. That was his last meal. I tried again each week for 6 weeks to no avail. I tried different times of day, I tried leaving him in with the mouse for an hour, we didn't handle him 48 or so hours before trying to feed him, I made sure his water was full and fresh, his tank heat and humidity was consistent... So this last attempt to feed him (number 7 I guess), I tried something different. I put the little plastic tub I'd been feeding him in, into his tank on the middle of the temp gradient. I thought this might make him feel more safe, and I could leave it in there for a longer period of time, and inside the tub, the mouse wouldn't be sitting on top of the substrate (I took it out and warmed it with a hair dryer every 3ish hours). Y'all, I thought I broke him. He stared at that damn mouse without moving for 12 HOURS. Finally I took it out to see if it would break him out of his spell. He crawled up in his tree and didn't move for another 12 hours. Thinking I must have completely traumatized him, I covered his cage a little more than halfway with a towel so he couldn't see anyone moving about the house, and have not disturbed him other than to peak in and refresh his water. It took a couple days, but now he is moving about like he used to.

Important notes:
Right after attempt #7, I thought to weigh him on our food scale for the first time. He was only 106 grams. I do not know how much he weighed when I bought him.
To my very unprofessional eye, he seems like a healthy looking snake, just small. He doesn't look triangle shaped, he explores his cage actively, doesn't seem nervous, slithers all around when people hold him, I see him drink water, and he pooped before attempt 7 and two days ago. He has never shed with me, and he doesn't look dull like he is about to shed either.
His cage is a 40 gallon tank with a mesh top. He has 3 hides and plants he likes to go under. He has a big water dish on the cool side, and a small one one the warm side. He has a climbing stick and a climbing tree. His humidity is always around 55. The cool side stays just above 70 and the warm side is just at 90. He used to love his small hide on the warm side but in the last 2 weeks has stopped using it. I found a piece of poop inside it, removed it, and have since deep cleaned, but he still doesn't use it. Now his favorite spot is in the leaves on top of his tree. The tree is on the warm side under the ceramic heating lamp. There is also a heating pad on the warm side. I use coconut fiber substrate.

TL/DR: 8 mo. BP only weighs 106g, hasn't eaten in a month and a half.

They are nocturnal so it's always best feeding in the evening ( low or dim light) .

I wait until they're settled for a while under a hide then give the rat a good long blast with a hairdryer then offer it INSTANTLY whilst it's still warm .... if there's the slightest interest then you give it another hairdryer blast and again offer instantly ... just repeat the process until it grabs it .

Note - if the snake shows ZERO interest or even moves away from the rat you are better forgetting it and try again in 7 to 10 days

I'd add loads of branches and pieces of dried bark all to be found in local woods / parks .. also get some plenty of fake foliage from the dollar shops ...


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[leenbean]

What do you use on a timer to signify a change from day to night? Should I get a secondary light that doesn’t put out heat to turn on and off each day? Do you leave your CHE on day and night, and is it black? Should I put the CHE and UTH on the same thermostat? If so, where should I put the probe? Or is it better to have two thermostats, one for the CHE and one for the UTH?

[Coluber42]

What do you use on a timer to signify a change from day to night? Should I get a secondary light that doesn’t put out heat to turn on and off each day? Do you leave your CHE on day and night, and is it black? Should I put the CHE and UTH on the same thermostat? If so, where should I put the probe? Or is it better to have two thermostats, one for the CHE and one for the UTH?

Separate heat sources need separate thermostats, one probe for each. The probe for the UTH goes between the UTH and the bottom of the enclosure. You don't set that one for the desired surface temperature, because the surface temperature will be lower. You set it where it needs to be to get the surface temperature you want, which you check with a temp gun over the course of several hours at least and adjust as needed. It's helpful to have a thermometer probe on the inside surface of the enclosure (i.e, the hottest place your snake can get at) so you can verify that it isn't getting too hot even when it's insulated by substrate.

A CHE does not emit any visible light. You can leave it on day and night, and unless you keep your house unusually warm, you probably need it both day and night.

Lighting to create a day/night cycle is more optional. If there's ambient light in the room from windows, that's enough to tell your snake what time of day it is. Some keepers use additional lights, such as for live plants that are in the enclosure or to provide the snake with UVB. Snakes don't require UVB in the same way that many lizards do; they certainly won't get sick without it. But they can see it and they will sometimes bask under it. Those fluorescent tube lights for UVB, or LED's that you may use for viewing or for plants, would be kept on a timer. Neither of those produce very much heat, although they do produce a little bit. Alternatively, you could even use incandescent or halogen bulbs for daytime viewing (again, on a timer), which do produce heat and which the snake might also choose to bask under.

In any case, if your CHE and UTH are on thermostats they will automatically adjust as needed for any heat put out by any lighting you choose to use, as well as adjusting for changes in the room temperature over the course of the day. That is what thermostats are for.

So in short, worry about getting your heating situation figured out and with everything on thermostats first. If you want to add lighting once that is done, you should be able to do so without changing your heating setup. If a light can raise the temperature in the cage by a few degrees, then the thermostat will compensate by making the CHE run at slightly lower power when the light is on. Make sense?

[leenbean]

Yes, excellent. I will get two thermostats, one for the UTH and one for the CHE. Now for the CHE, that is controlling the ambient temperature, right? How do I go about placing the probe for the CHE? I know I am not supposed to use tape inside the cage, but do I adhere it to the glass somehow? I'm assuming it goes on the warm side. For the temp of the cooler side, do you just adjust the temp by monitoring with a temp gun and moving the lamp farther or closer?

[leenbean]

I insulated the walls in the morning and added paper towel rolls and an extra hide yesterday. Emptied out and washed a family sized container of deli meat, drilled holes in the lid, put it in the cage around noon so he’d get used to it being there a bit. Put him and a thawed hopper mouse in the deli container, popped the lid on, and two hours later he finally ate it. Hallelujah and thanks for all the help everyone! My temp gun and thermostats should be here Monday.

[Coluber42]

There are a few ways you could do this, but what I recommend is that you use the CHE for the warm side and the UTH for the cool side. In that case the UTH may actually not need to come on very much at all, depending on what you get from the CHE. But once they've got thermostats, they'll self-regulate.

There are several things you can do with the probe for the CHE. I recommend letting it dangle about an inch above the ground, where it will get the air temperature but won't be affected by your snake sitting on it or peeing on it.

One thing to know, just so you don't make yourself too crazy: The way on/off thermostats (the cheaper ones) work is that if you have set a set point of 80 degrees (as an example), the thermostat also has a threshhold above and below that number - let's say it's two degrees. That means that when the temperature reaches 82, the thermostat shuts off the heat source. When the temperature falls to 78, the thermostat turns the heat source back on. Plus, the temperature may actually keep going up a little bit after the heat source has been switched off, because the CHE is still hot and is still radiating heat into the enclosure, just like an electric burner that you've turned off but hasn't cooled down yet. And at the other end it might still drop a bit even after the CHE has been turned back on, because it takes time to heat up and to start heating up other surfaces after the power starts flowing.

So the result is that the temperature oscillates up and down a bit. These temperature swings aren't a major problem for your snake, but they can be really frustrating for keepers who feel like they're trying to hit a moving target. So just understand that a certain amount of fluctuation is normal due to the way your equipment works, and it's fine - don't make yourself nutz.