Tub Questions!

[wolftrap]

So I am looking at an additional BP, and to save space (not my priority but it's worth discussion), I was curious about stacking tubs. My BP is a juvenile female, and the BP I'm looking to get is an adult male, so I would want tubs that are the same size that would be appropriate for both of them. So without encouraging the debate of tanks vs tubs, I'd like to pose a few questions for you experts out there:

1. I would like two 25-gallon semi-transparent tubs that can stack on top of each other. Is this an okay size for an adult female and adult male BP? When I have to access the tub on the bottom, will it stress the snake on the top of the stack out to move the first tub aside?

2. I'd like to put the two stacked tubs on the floor. Is this a bad idea? I would have a UTH under 1/3rd (w/ thermoSTATS!) of both tubs (so both snakes would have belly heat, then I hoped that the heat generated in between the tubs would help the heat of both tubs), then fix a heat lamp to the lid of the top tub. I'm wondering if the floor temp would screw up the controlled temps of the tubs? Is there a better way to heat tubs that y'all have found?

3. I plan on drilling about ten holes in each of the long sides of the tubs so that air flow can be achieved, but humidity could definitely be under control... I will be using coconut fiber eco earth for both snakes, and I will be prepared to mist as often as I need to. Would this be okay to control each snakes' access to humidity and air flow?

Hopefully all of that made sense. Thanks in advance!

[Armiyana]

I would not put a heat lamp on the tubs at all.

Long time ago, i had just moved cross country and did something similar as I was saving to get a better caging setup. My roomie's brother nudged the lamp and the burning plastic suffocated my kingsnake. I still feel terrible about it, even though he had been warned not to touch the tubs and still wanted to put his feet up on the table they were on. =_=;

[Slicercrush]

When i used just normal tubs before using my rack, i used heattape on a thermostat to do belly heat. Its the cheapest way, though i wouldnt stack the tubs directly on top of eachother with any UTH. A heatlamp really isnt good for tubs.

Have you thought abiut grabbing a premade rack, or building one yourself? Chris over at CSerpants makes some pretty nice ones, and if you email him about custom sizing (mine only has 2 layers instead of 3), he can do that for you as well. Mine with shipping was about $180, but theyre a huge space saver and a completely worth it upgrade if you wanna get a secondary tub, and keep them in a "stacked" position.

Another idea is using a small metal shelving unit, one tub on each with heattape underneath, that could be a cheaper rackjng system.

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[wolftrap]

Armiyana, I'm so sorry to hear about your snake!! Thank you for the warning!

How would the heat tape work? I have zero experience with it. Do you tape it to the outside or on the bottom of the tubs? Would you use heat tape alone and no UTH/lamps/etc?

Also, how do you heat a two-space rack? Thank you so much for your help!!

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[Lord Sorril]

1. I would like two 25-gallon semi-transparent tubs that can stack on top of each other. Is this an okay size for an adult female and adult male BP?

That depends on the dimensions of the tub and the dimensions of your snake. Height is less important than floor space.

When I have to access the tub on the bottom, will it stress the snake on the top of the stack out to move the first tub aside?

Probably not. If you are moving the top tub and suddenly the bottom tub is exposed to bright light-then definitely. How would you like someone pulling the shades on you while you were sleeping Hmmm?

I'd like to put the two stacked tubs on the floor. Is this a bad idea?

If they are sitting on the floor-then yes you are correct that the bottom UTH will lose heat through the floor (potentially all of it).

(I hoped that the heat generated in between the tubs would help the heat of both tubs)

This is true.

then fix a heat lamp to the lid of the top tub.

You can put a heat lamp in proximity of the tubs-but I definitely do not recommend attaching/aiming one to/at plastic.

Is there a better way to heat tubs that y'all have found?

Get a cheap metal shelving unit from your local big box store. Keep each tub on a separate level (off the floor)-provide ambient heat.

I plan on drilling about ten holes in each of the long sides of the tubs so that air flow can be achieved, but humidity could definitely be under control...

I'm a big fan of ventilation (pun intended). I would add a lot of small holes and not worry about humidity if there is a water dish large enough for him/her to submerge in.

Since you have the option: I would also add at least one small ventilation hole about 4-5 inches off the bottom of the cage to off-gas any CO2 or heavy gases that the snake(s) may produce during the digestive process (to keep them comfortable).

[wolftrap]

They are longer than they are tall... definitely better for lump-on-a-log snakes that won't climb more than a few inches.

Right now I'm thinking heat tape with thermostats would be the way to go. Both would have lids so that light won't beam onto them.

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[Slicercrush]

Armiyana, I'm so sorry to hear about your snake!! Thank you for the warning!

How would the heat tape work? I have zero experience with it. Do you tape it to the outside or on the bottom of the tubs? Would you use heat tape alone and no UTH/lamps/etc?

Also, how do you heat a two-space rack? Thank you so much for your help!!
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Heattape is basically just heat created from the electricity running through the copper bands on each side, which is why its so cheap, and MUST be regulated by all means. Obviously theres more to it to keep it safe for everyone, but thats about as simple of an explanation as I can give. It usually goes on the bottom like any other UTH. Reptile Basics has some nice heat tape for sale, and they'll even wire it up for you for a few cents more.

Most racks are actually heated by heat tape on each level. With mine, and many others, all of them are wired together into a single plug, which can then be used with any single plug thermostat (I use a herpstat). If you were to do two separate tubs with two separate lengths of heat tape, you would either have to use two thermostats, or purchase a thermostat that supports two inputs (such as a herpstat II)

If you do end up looking at racks, I suggest checking out CSerpants.

[Coluber42]

They are longer than they are tall... definitely better for lump-on-a-log snakes that won't climb more than a few inches.

Right now I'm thinking heat tape with thermostats would be the way to go. Both would have lids so that light won't beam onto them.

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Just to offer another opinion, since you asked about size... 25 gallon enclosures in whatever aspect ratio are pretty small for adult ball pythons. They are not actually lumps on a log that won't climb more than a few inches; if given more space and enrichment they really will use it. They will climb* up branches and platforms and things (even if a snake who has never had access to that stuff before takes a long time to figure it out), and that modicum of exercise is healthy. Yes, they spend a lot of their time sleeping in hides or burrows, but they don't spend *all* their time sitting in one place.
If nothing else, you should at least have room for a warm hide, a cool hide, and a humid hide. In a tub the size you're talking about, that gets tight quickly.
They do need to feel secure, so you shouldn't just give them the proverbial giant tank with one hide and a water bowl, screen top, and heat lamp. But they absolutely can be made to feel safe in a large cage, as long as it provides hides and cover. You might be surprised at what they do if given the chance. It can also be easier to keep humidity stable in a larger space, because you have more options for how to regulate it and add more moisture to the environment.

Plenty of people do keep them in enclosures that small, and it works. But it's really not much more work or expense to give them a lot more than that, especially if you're talking about two snakes and not 20.

*re. climbing: just to head off the argument, I'm not claiming they're arboreal like tree pythons. But even terrestrial animals routinely climb up things that are two or three feet off the ground. A piece of branch in a 12" or 24" high cage is not a giant sequoia.

[bcr229]

I made a fairly inexpensive rack using this:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-72-i...8974/100006678

Using a hacksaw, cut the supports between the shelves so the gap between the shelves is about 1/8" more than the tub height WITH THE LID ON:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hefty-13-Ga...Lid/1000505517

Add heat tape and a thermostat and you are done. The tubs slide in easily between the two short-side supports.

This is a lid-on tub design so you do have to remove the tub for cleaning. For feeding it's fairly easy since you pull the tub out 2/3 of the way and then just lift the lid, it flexes. It works for adult ball pythons and smaller boas.

You could just modify supports for two tubs, then use the top and the remaining unmodified shelves for storing supplies.