RHP's and radiation

[Zuri Indigo]

I always have wondered about RHPs... Do they give off any type of uvb or any type of radiation?

Just curious as I don't fully understand how they work.

[BR8080]

No UVB and no "radiation" (the kind that made Godzilla lol) except heat. If I'm not mistaken they are just heat coils sandwiched between non flammable material in a nice aluminum enclosure (at least my Pro Product RHPs are). Here's more information about them http://pro-products.com/pro-heat/

[Craiga 01453]

No UVB and no "radiation" (the kind that made Godzilla lol) except heat. If I'm not mistaken they are just heat coils sandwiched between non flammable material in a nice aluminum enclosure

That's my understanding as well

[Zuri Indigo]

No UVB and no "radiation" (the kind that made Godzilla lol) except heat. If I'm not mistaken they are just heat coils sandwiched between non flammable material in a nice aluminum enclosure (at least my Pro Product RHPs are). Here's more information about them http://pro-products.com/pro-heat/

Darn I clicked the link and I was really hoping it would go into detail about how they work. But I do understand somewhat from what you've told me thank you.


Have either of you noticed any health benefits from using the rhp? It said on that website there were benefits other than just heat to health.

I guess that's why I was thinking it had uvb or something but I think I was just thinking too far into it when ppl say it's like the sun lol. Thanks for your help I appreciate it!


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[Coluber42]

Radiant heat panels give off deep infrared radiation, not UV. The radiation in question is called "black body radiation", which is given off by any matter whose temperature is above absolute zero. It's in the electromagnetic spectrum, and its wavelength depends on temperature. Cooler temperature = longer wavelength, hotter temperater = shorter wavelength.

In a way, a radiant heat panel and an under tank heater and a ceramic heat emitter and an incandescent bulb all basically do the same thing: They have a heat element that has a certain amount of resistance and heats up when electricity goes through it. In a 100-watt radiant heat panel, it's a long run of coils where none of it gets all that hot, but it's spread over a large area and there's a lot of it. So you get deep infrared radiation, and a heat source that is safe to touch. In a 100-watt ceramic heat emitter, you have the same amount of power making a smaller amount of coil a lot hotter and it's concentrated in a smaller area. You don't want to touch that. The radiation it emits is still infrared, and still outside the spectrum you can see with your eyes, but it's a shorter wavelength than the RHP produces. In a 100-watt incandescent bulb, the wire that gets hot is just a teeny tiny thin filament, but it gets really freaking hot - like 4,000° F. You might say, so hot it is incandescent. Yeah, don't touch that either.
The incandescent bulb is hot enough that its black body radiation is actually in the visible spectrum, which is why light bulbs were invented. Other things get hot enough to radiate in the visible spectrum too, such as the coils on an electric stove.
UV is a shorter wavelength than visible light, so stuff has to get even hotter to produce it. Welding involves temperatures high enough to produce UV, which is part of why you wear a mask while doing it.

Fluorescent lights work a completely different way, which is why they can emit visible light and UV without getting dangerously hot. That's also why they're more efficient when you only want light and not heat. An incandescent bulb still uses most of its energy to produce heat, with only a fraction of it going toward visible light.

[Zuri Indigo]

Radiant heat panels give off deep infrared radiation, not UV. The radiation in question is called "black body radiation", which is given off by any matter whose temperature is above absolute zero. It's in the electromagnetic spectrum, and its wavelength depends on temperature. Cooler temperature = longer wavelength, hotter temperater = shorter wavelength.

In a way, a radiant heat panel and an under tank heater and a ceramic heat emitter and an incandescent bulb all basically do the same thing: They have a heat element that has a certain amount of resistance and heats up when electricity goes through it. In a 100-watt radiant heat panel, it's a long run of coils where none of it gets all that hot, but it's spread over a large area and there's a lot of it. So you get deep infrared radiation, and a heat source that is safe to touch. In a 100-watt ceramic heat emitter, you have the same amount of power making a smaller amount of coil a lot hotter and it's concentrated in a smaller area. You don't want to touch that. The radiation it emits is still infrared, and still outside the spectrum you can see with your eyes, but it's a shorter wavelength than the RHP produces. In a 100-watt incandescent bulb, the wire that gets hot is just a teeny tiny thin filament, but it gets really freaking hot - like 4,000° F. You might say, so hot it is incandescent. Yeah, don't touch that either.
The incandescent bulb is hot enough that its black body radiation is actually in the visible spectrum, which is why light bulbs were invented. Other things get hot enough to radiate in the visible spectrum too, such as the coils on an electric stove.
UV is a shorter wavelength than visible light, so stuff has to get even hotter to produce it. Welding involves temperatures high enough to produce UV, which is part of why you wear a mask while doing it.

Fluorescent lights work a completely different way, which is why they can emit visible light and UV without getting dangerously hot. That's also why they're more efficient when you only want light and not heat. An incandescent bulb still uses most of its energy to produce heat, with only a fraction of it going toward visible light.

So ok I have a question also btw thank you for all the detail that's what I needed!

So if I have an enclosure with a RHP and a uvb bulb will that be too much radiation. Like can a pet get cancer or anything from that?


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[Coluber42]

No, it's not too much radiation. First off, all heat sources produce radiation, by definition. But when people talk about "radiation" that causes cancer, it's the generally the shorter wavelengths they're talking about: x rays, gamma rays, etc; or radiation in much higher doses than is produced by a heat element alone. UV plus a heat source doesn't raise the risk of cancer any more than the UV source does by itself. I read a paper awhile ago about a bunch of reptiles getting cancer from one or two specific models of higher-output UV bulbs. To their credit, the manufacturers did recall and reformulate their products when they found out. Whether or not you provide your animal with UV (I have UV bulbs in my ball python's cage) has nothing to do with how much "radiation" they get from their heat source.

Like I said, EVERYTHING gives off EM radiation, yourself included. Animals have detectors (also known as eyes) to make use of electromagnetic radiation in their environment (i.e, light). Ball pythons also have another kind of detector, which are those heat pits on their faces, which detect deep infrared in the spectrum given off by things at around a warm-blooded animal's body temperature. That's why you have to heat up their rats in order for them to recognize their food.

There are also other ways of making EM radiation besides just heat. Things like microwave ovens, radio transmitters, LED's, etc, all do that. So it's possible to get an unsafe amount of other wavelengths of EM radiation from sources like that. But not from something that's basically just warm.

[Zuri Indigo]

No, it's not too much radiation. First off, all heat sources produce radiation, by definition. But when people talk about "radiation" that causes cancer, it's the generally the shorter wavelengths they're talking about: x rays, gamma rays, etc; or radiation in much higher doses than is produced by a heat element alone. UV plus a heat source doesn't raise the risk of cancer any more than the UV source does by itself. I read a paper awhile ago about a bunch of reptiles getting cancer from one or two specific models of higher-output UV bulbs. To their credit, the manufacturers did recall and reformulate their products when they found out. Whether or not you provide your animal with UV (I have UV bulbs in my ball python's cage) has nothing to do with how much "radiation" they get from their heat source.

Like I said, EVERYTHING gives off EM radiation, yourself included. Animals have detectors (also known as eyes) to make use of electromagnetic radiation in their environment (i.e, light). Ball pythons also have another kind of detector, which are those heat pits on their faces, which detect deep infrared in the spectrum given off by things at around a warm-blooded animal's body temperature. That's why you have to heat up their rats in order for them to recognize their food.

There are also other ways of making EM radiation besides just heat. Things like microwave ovens, radio transmitters, LED's, etc, all do that. So it's possible to get an unsafe amount of other wavelengths of EM radiation from sources like that. But not from something that's basically just warm.

You're so incredibly knowledgeable thank you! Like wow I love learning stuff like this!!!


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[Zuri Indigo]

No, it's not too much radiation. First off, all heat sources produce radiation, by definition. But when people talk about "radiation" that causes cancer, it's the generally the shorter wavelengths they're talking about: x rays, gamma rays, etc; or radiation in much higher doses than is produced by a heat element alone. UV plus a heat source doesn't raise the risk of cancer any more than the UV source does by itself. I read a paper awhile ago about a bunch of reptiles getting cancer from one or two specific models of higher-output UV bulbs. To their credit, the manufacturers did recall and reformulate their products when they found out. Whether or not you provide your animal with UV (I have UV bulbs in my ball python's cage) has nothing to do with how much "radiation" they get from their heat source.

Like I said, EVERYTHING gives off EM radiation, yourself included. Animals have detectors (also known as eyes) to make use of electromagnetic radiation in their environment (i.e, light). Ball pythons also have another kind of detector, which are those heat pits on their faces, which detect deep infrared in the spectrum given off by things at around a warm-blooded animal's body temperature. That's why you have to heat up their rats in order for them to recognize their food.

There are also other ways of making EM radiation besides just heat. Things like microwave ovens, radio transmitters, LED's, etc, all do that. So it's possible to get an unsafe amount of other wavelengths of EM radiation from sources like that. But not from something that's basically just warm.

Also yes yes yes I want to put uv in my ballpython cage. They said to get a t8 uvb. Do you know anything about those? Which kind do you use? And have you found any benefits!?

You're genius!


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[Coluber42]

The stuff about black body radiation is fairly basic physics; you can easily find more on YouTube or Wikipedia or a high school physics textbook. It's worth having some basic knowledge of how heat works in general, because it can save you a whole lot of $$ in heating and cooling your own house more efficiently, let alone your snake.

I have two 18" T8 fixtures in my ball python's enclosure with Reptisun 5.0 bulbs. Most of the cage is too far from the bulbs for the UV to penetrate, but there are a couple of higher platforms that are closer. My snake does bask openly from time to time, but more often he will mostly curl up in a hide on the upper platform with just a loop of his body sticking out in the UV. He can easily fit completely inside the hide, and when that bulb was burned out that's what he did. But once I got a new bulb, he was back to always having part of his body sticking out. That's called "cryptic basking"; lots of animals do that as a way to catch some rays while staying more hidden from predators.
Snakes don't need UV the way many lizards do (who will get sick if they don't have it) but it still has some benefits. They do need to have a circadian rhythm, and they're from an equatorial region so keeping lights on a 12-hour timer takes care of that.

It goes without saying that the whole thing is that the snake should be able to choose when and whether to hang out under the lights. In other words, there should also be plenty of areas of the cage that are in the shade and hides that are dark inside.

If nothing else, the lights look nice and are good for the plants. It's not the UV that the plants like, it's just the white light in general. The output of these bulbs is a pretty low percentage UV, it's mostly visible light. And the UV they do put out does not make it very far, which is why you also need to have a basking area sufficiently close (but not too close). If the light shines through a plastic cover or a mesh screen, that will stop some of the UV from penetrating too.
So worst case scenario is that the snake doesn't care, and you have some nice looking lights in the cage.