Disabled Snake

[SDA]

Sounds like you are making the right changes. I know sometimes it does take that extra effort like assist feeding to get things going. I won't say everything will be ok because I think we are both realists about the problems that can happen but you sound like you have a good vet, great son, and a good breeder friend to help move things along.

All I can say is I do hope things improve and you win out and of course do try and take your time and don't get discouraged Best of luck with care and it does indeed sound like you are on the right track

[Maybeka]

Sent off my "nice" letter to Petsmart today. I have been trying to send it by fax and the fax number has been busy for 3 days now.
I have looked everywhere i can possibly look for an e-mail for the corporate office. I did find a couple of links for an e-mail but they all appear to be broken links.

So i went on the regular Petsmart website and hit the contact button and just copy pasted my whole letter into that.

I think i'm also going to mail it.

I am also going to stop by Petsmart on my way home from work today and talk to whatever manager is there and explain the whole thing to him and see what he says. Our vet will give us something in writing that says what he sees in her mouth so i have backup if needed.

My son is on the fence on this. He so badly wants to keep her, but at the same time he doesn't think he is capable of assist feeding her for her whole life if she in fact doesn't learn to eat on her own.

This is so hard.

I want to thank everyone here for all their suggestions. I want to thank you all for everything.

Poor baby Mia.......

[Lord Sorril]

A lot of times I will not look at the Petco/Petsmart reptile cages. The less I see...the less nightmares I will have...
(I'm just there to play with the ferrets)

[zina10]

You have gotten a ton of good advice.

But the one thing you have not tried yet, is to follow Deborah's advice. While its true that larger cages CAN be made to work for many snakes, even young ones, you will always have that young snake that is simply overwhelmed by it.

Hatchlings are a whole different matter then adult snakes. Most people that get a young snake usually get one that is already past those "beginner hickups". It has usually eaten on its own and it is what we call "established". Those sometimes fare better being housed in larger enclosures, as long as husbandry is correct of course.

Even completely normal and perfectly housed new hatchlings can be difficult to get started on eating. Yours has a disability. Yours has probably been pushed off to that big box store because the breeder knew that in that case it didn't really matter whether that hatchling was established or not. Petsmart just writes off the ones that don't make it.

They do use their tongue to realize what is food. However, they also use different senses for that. Quite possible that the snake would learn to associate the prey by heat and smell alone.

At this point the snake is still in good condition, so there is nothing to loose by trying.

Deborah has raised countless of clutches of snake hatchlings. There is nothing like actual experience. I only raised 3 "planned" clutches and even in those I had a couple stubborn ones and one that was near impossible and I almost gave up on that one. Thankfully its alive, well and thriving now.

It has already been established that moving those challenging hatchlings into a smaller and extremely private container can do the trick. Yes, it stinks after just having worked on the bigger tank to get it just right. It stinks that it will be a plain little tub and you can't see inside. It stinks to have to start over buying more stuff. All that and there is no guarantee that it will work. However, it has worked many times before with other hatchlings. Yours is a special case for sure, but I have heard of one Ball Python male with NO tongue that learned to eat on his own and is just fine.

Assist feeding for the rest of the snakes life is probably not a very good choice. For now I would do anything at all to see if you can get it to eat on its own.

If it was my little one I would set it up in a small tub, one third of the tub sitting on a heat mat that is controlled by a thermostat. I would make sure this tub was enclosed (of course leave air holes) on all sides but the front. Put a thin layer of dark substrate in it and possibly a very small hide and a small water dish. Nothing else.

Let the snake settle down for at least a week or so, then try a live mouse hopper. I know that is to small of a meal for a snake of that size, but you want something that is harmless to leave with the snake. A rat fuzzy might work too, they move less in case the snake is intimidated by a spastic jumping mouse hopper. Scent the rat fuzzy with dirty mouse bedding. You want the scent to be strong. (stinky)

Well, that is what I would try...

You will be hard pressed to find someone to take this on. Breeders that may have the know how and the correct setups for a difficult hatchling (tubs) will probably not want to bother. Esp. since strict quarantine will need to be followed. No-one is going to want to risk bringing some disease to their collection. And while an individual may have a good heart and take this on, will they really do better then you can?

If you have horses and had a senior, then you know how it is. Despite the best efforts and expense/time spent, you have to change things around. And again. And sometimes nothing works.

If it was mine, I'd give it my best shot, try everything, and if that doesn't do it, have it put down. That is better then giving it to someone that has no emotional attachment just yet and may eventually just let it starve, even though they promised they would take good care of it.

If things go wrong, don't let it turn you off from the hobby. There are so many snakes that can benefit from all the good care and love you have to offer. Just buy one from a reputable breeder, get a well established one, and start over..


btw. I have a senior horse, too, can only hope she makes it to 33. Have a feeling she may not, though, as she has a few issues..

[Maybeka]

You have gotten a ton of good advice.

But the one thing you have not tried yet, is to follow Deborah's advice. While its true that larger cages CAN be made to work for many snakes, even young ones, you will always have that young snake that is simply overwhelmed by it.

Hatchlings are a whole different matter then adult snakes. Most people that get a young snake usually get one that is already past those "beginner hickups". It has usually eaten on its own and it is what we call "established". Those sometimes fare better being housed in larger enclosures, as long as husbandry is correct of course.

Even completely normal and perfectly housed new hatchlings can be difficult to get started on eating. Yours has a disability. Yours has probably been pushed off to that big box store because the breeder knew that in that case it didn't really matter whether that hatchling was established or not. Petsmart just writes off the ones that don't make it.

They do use their tongue to realize what is food. However, they also use different senses for that. Quite possible that the snake would learn to associate the prey by heat and smell alone.

At this point the snake is still in good condition, so there is nothing to loose by trying.

Deborah has raised countless of clutches of snake hatchlings. There is nothing like actual experience. I only raised 3 "planned" clutches and even in those I had a couple stubborn ones and one that was near impossible and I almost gave up on that one. Thankfully its alive, well and thriving now.

It has already been established that moving those challenging hatchlings into a smaller and extremely private container can do the trick. Yes, it stinks after just having worked on the bigger tank to get it just right. It stinks that it will be a plain little tub and you can't see inside. It stinks to have to start over buying more stuff. All that and there is no guarantee that it will work. However, it has worked many times before with other hatchlings. Yours is a special case for sure, but I have heard of one Ball Python male with NO tongue that learned to eat on his own and is just fine.

Assist feeding for the rest of the snakes life is probably not a very good choice. For now I would do anything at all to see if you can get it to eat on its own.

If it was my little one I would set it up in a small tub, one third of the tub sitting on a heat mat that is controlled by a thermostat. I would make sure this tub was enclosed (of course leave air holes) on all sides but the front. Put a thin layer of dark substrate in it and possibly a very small hide and a small water dish. Nothing else.

Let the snake settle down for at least a week or so, then try a live mouse hopper. I know that is to small of a meal for a snake of that size, but you want something that is harmless to leave with the snake. A rat fuzzy might work too, they move less in case the snake is intimidated by a spastic jumping mouse hopper. Scent the rat fuzzy with dirty mouse bedding. You want the scent to be strong. (stinky)

Well, that is what I would try...

You will be hard pressed to find someone to take this on. Breeders that may have the know how and the correct setups for a difficult hatchling (tubs) will probably not want to bother. Esp. since strict quarantine will need to be followed. No-one is going to want to risk bringing some disease to their collection. And while an individual may have a good heart and take this on, will they really do better then you can?

If you have horses and had a senior, then you know how it is. Despite the best efforts and expense/time spent, you have to change things around. And again. And sometimes nothing works.

If it was mine, I'd give it my best shot, try everything, and if that doesn't do it, have it put down. That is better then giving it to someone that has no emotional attachment just yet and may eventually just let it starve, even though they promised they would take good care of it.

If things go wrong, don't let it turn you off from the hobby. There are so many snakes that can benefit from all the good care and love you have to offer. Just buy one from a reputable breeder, get a well established one, and start over..


btw. I have a senior horse, too, can only hope she makes it to 33. Have a feeling she may not, though, as she has a few issues..

Tried feeding ... She ignores all food.. So my son Assisted feeding tonight. Barely touched her mouth with it and she took it.



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[Ladybugzcrunch]

This is good. A few more of these and she will get it. Be patient. Many uncomprimised hatchlings need many assist feeds. If she took it without jamming it down her throat, this is good.

[Maybeka]

Tried feeding ... She ignores all food.. So my son Assisted feeding tonight. Barely touched her mouth with it and she took it.



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She did squirm a bit while he was holding her head but then The mouse nose touched her mouth and that was it!
If it could be that easy to feed an adult by hand it would be no problem.... But as she gets bigger I dont think it'll be so easy.
She's hard to hold now I'm assuming it'll be harder when she's bigger.

Shes going into a tub this weekend with a full belly and we can just leave her be until its feeding time again.

A week from now yes? (Of course we'll check her and monitor temps etc...just no touch)

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[Maybeka]

This is good. A few more of these and she will get it. Be patient. Many uncomprimised hatchlings need many assist feeds. If she took it without jamming it down her throat, this is good.

Nope no jamming anything. She went for it and even started to curl up around it. But we still had to do it. She flat out refused several attempts of wiggling it on front of her.. Heating it nice and warm etc... Nothing. Wanted nothing to do with food. Like she didn't even know it was there.

[zina10]

Nope no jamming anything. She went for it and even started to curl up around it. But we still had to do it. She flat out refused several attempts of wiggling it on front of her.. Heating it nice and warm etc... Nothing. Wanted nothing to do with food. Like she didn't even know it was there.

That is actually how it is with most of the hatchlings that refuse to eat on their own. After every other option is exhausted and finally assist feeding is started, many act the same exact way. Even with a normal tongue. Actually, this is the best way this could be going, the ones that grab and constrict as soon as the rodent touches the mouth are the easy ones ! That doesn't mean you will always have to assist feed, as a matter of fact, there is a good chance you won't.

Your baby just needs to learn and also gain confidence.

There is hope, absolutely so And once they take off, boy do they TAKE OFF. Its like a switch has turned and from then on, smooth sailing

I'm crossing fingers and toes

[hilabeans]

Hey, this is good news and hopeful!! Can't wait to watch her progress after her enclosure downsize. I think this should really give you cause for optimism. She seems like such a sweetheart and so lucky to have landed with you and your son.