Went to petco and saw this

[CALM Pythons]

I dont agree with producing the spider gene. Gorgeous yes, they eat yes and live full lives it seems...but thats is just NOT NORMAL and to produce for a morph over the health or a neurological issue is not right in my eyes. ...to me its a animal that doesn't have control of itself. I hate seeing that.


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[zina10]

I dont agree with producing the spider gene. Gorgeous yes, they eat yes and live full lives it seems...but thats is just NOT NORMAL and to produce for a morph over the health or a neurological issue is not right in my eyes. ...to me its a animal that doesn't have control of itself. I hate seeing that.


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I totally understand your point and respect your opinion.

But I wonder sometimes, exactly where should we draw the line? And how do we know for sure what genetic abnormality causes pain and discomfort? Does un-normal movement cause pain?

It is easy to single out the spiders. Their genetic neurological disorder causes the wobble and when they get stressed it can cause cork screwing. It can be distressing to watch. However, like you said, most eat very well and "seem" to have no severe issues, they thrive, they breed. Similar genetic disorders that show up in some mammals have proven to not be painful. I personally have known a dog with a disorder like that. He walked and ran like crazy drunk, but was as happy go lucky as could be. And with dogs it is fairly easy to detect discomfort and pain, even though they like to hide it.

So we don't know for sure, but it could be possible, they are pain free. Just move funny. At times their strike misses.

What about other genetic abnormalities ? For example, albinos. Now, they too seem perfectly content, they often eat just fine (although some also have trouble with strikes missing, unless the rodent gives out a strong heat signature). We know that albinism can cause problems with eyes. The eyes are very light sensitive and damage can easily be done to the retina when out in the light. Not only that, but it can be painful. Granted...snakes aren't often out in the light. But at times they are. And they don't have lids to protect the retina. Some albinos can also be prone to eye infections or to be borne without one or both eyes.

Knowing all that, should we not breed them or their combos? What if we KNEW for sure that they have discomfort in the eyes every time they are out in the light?

Then we have so many other morphs that can have subtle and not so subtle issues. Some have issues with their spine kinking. That probably isn't exactly a very comfortable thing to live with either. Desert females cannot reproduce. Who knows what exactly goes on internally, and does it cause pain?

As a matter of fact, morphs in themselves are a genetic abnormality.

Long story short, while I don't own or breed spiders anymore, the one I had was a joy to own and she gives a lot of joy to the new owner as well. If there was any snake, no matter the morph, where it was clear it had no quality of life, it wouldn't thrive, it seemed in pain (or it was logical there would be pain) I would have it euthanized no matter the morph. But for now I'm hesitant to throw any one of them to the curb until more research has been done on all the ones that might have potential issues.

But, I do respect your opinion like I've said. Just sharing my opinion on your (and others that feel the same about it) opinion

And while I don't necessarily blame Petco for having ended up with 2 spiders, IF they are in the "morph selling market" they should be in contact with sellers and refuse animals that stress in such an environment even more so then others will. And there shouldn't be more then one snake per enclosure to lower their stress.