What happens if you freeze a live feeder? Let say a rat pup

[Craiga 01453]

A) Why are you thinking of getting a live prey item in the first place?
B) Why are you concerned your snake won't eat it?
and...
C) Out of respect for all living things, PLEASE don't throw a LIVE animal in your freezer to die a slow, agonizing death. That's honestly CRUEL.

[cchardwick]

I recently saw a news article about a pet store that banged their live rats against a hard surface to kill them, apparently some PETA like group found out and had the long arm of the law confiscate all of the pet store animals.

I euthanize all my rats and mice with CO2. I use a small Tupperware container, I cut a hole for a car tire valve stem, removed the valve stem core, and use a hose connected to a regulator on a tank. Instead of a tank and regulator you can use a CO2 cartridge and a small hand held bike tire inflator, that's what I started with. Dry ice works as well. It takes about 30 seconds of gas to put them under (purging at 5 PSI), then I turn off the gas and keep them in the CO2 for an extra three minutes, will euthanize small rats, big rats, any size mice, all except rat pups which I find strange, seems like they are the toughest of all of them. You have to give them a few extra minutes in the gas before feeding or they will 'wake up'. Anything that is not eaten goes in the freezer for use later as frozen thawed or is sold off. CO2 is the only legal way to euthanize your rodents that I'm aware of, to stay out of trouble I wouldn't use anything else. I also recommend putting a towel over the Tupperware gas chamber so no one freaks out when they go to sleep, we want to keep this as politically correct as we can so we can keep the hobby going... I find cutting their spine with a knife to be incredibly brutal, I couldn't bring myself to do that.

[JodanOrNoDan]

For those that are wondering about what the animal may be feeling in these situations. In my time in the military I was close to death on a number of occasions. Almost froze to death twice. Almost drown once. Freezing to death is not so bad. You fall asleep as your body temp drops. Drowning is far worse at the beginning as you fight the situation. Once your body is deprived of oxygen for awhile you begin to hallucinate and it is in its latter stages actually a peaceful experience.

When I have to kill a rat it is always by cervical dislocation. It is instant if you don't screw up.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

What happens is that you are committing animal cruelty.

Because those are prey does not mean they do not deserve to be killed humanely.

So do your research euthanize humanely or feed live.

[ElliotNess]

Some of you should not own animals and if my statement offends you, enough said.

I made a very simple how to. Cost 25 dollars and if you own a snake (15 years +) then it will be paid for in no time.

If 25.00 is too much, google the dry ice method...

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...anize-Humanely

[rock]

I can't see all the effort in taking care of a snake and at the same time being cruel in any way to what you are feeding it. At least you asked the question and received some proper feedback.

I feed live but have 3 snakes so if one doesn't eat one of the others will take two. I could also bring the live rat back to the store the next day which you should be able to do as well.

No drowning or freezing or thumping seems like a good rule of thumb.

[JodanOrNoDan]

This discussion always drives me nuts but I am going to take the bait then step away. First, anything that is killed should be killed in the most expedient way possible preferably without the victim knowing it is going to die. Nothing should be tortured before death.

That said, things die so other things can live. Immediate total destruction of the brain is going to be the least painful next to being unknowingly bled out. To those pushing gas, I am not by any means saying it is the wrong way, but in my head at the least we are talking suffocation. That hamburger or chicken that you just ate was not gassed.

Of all the methods mentioned the snake's own natural method is by far the most violent and painful. Constriction is going to hurt and so is envenomation when it is delivered by an animal that is appropriately equipped. If I (I have never done this) squeezed a rat to death it would be considered animal cruelty. If the snake does it, is not? If I injected a rat with nerve toxin it would be cruelty, but if the snake does it, it is not?

The arguments around this subject often defy logic and very often reflect people's own personal definitions of right and wrong rather than reality.

[rock]

This discussion always drives me nuts but I am going to take the bait then step away. First, anything that is killed should be killed in the most expedient way possible preferably without the victim knowing it is going to die. Nothing should be tortured before death.

That said, things die so other things can live. Immediate total destruction of the brain is going to be the least painful next to being unknowingly bled out. To those pushing gas, I am not by any means saying it is the wrong way, but in my head at the least we are talking suffocation. That hamburger or chicken that you just ate was not gassed.

Of all the methods mentioned the snake's own natural method is by far the most violent and painful. Constriction is going to hurt and so is envenomation when it is delivered by an animal that is appropriately equipped. If I (I have never done this) squeezed a rat to death it would be considered animal cruelty. If the snake does it, is not? If I injected a rat with nerve toxin it would be cruelty, but if the snake does it, it is not?

The arguments around this subject often defy logic and very often reflect people's own personal definitions of right and wrong rather than reality.

Well played, sir. Well played.

Food for thought.

[Sallos]

This discussion always drives me nuts but I am going to take the bait then step away. First, anything that is killed should be killed in the most expedient way possible preferably without the victim knowing it is going to die. Nothing should be tortured before death.That said, things die so other things can live. Immediate total destruction of the brain is going to be the least painful next to being unknowingly bled out. To those pushing gas, I am not by any means saying it is the wrong way, but in my head at the least we are talking suffocation. That hamburger or chicken that you just ate was not gassed.Of all the methods mentioned the snake's own natural method is by far the most violent and painful. Constriction is going to hurt and so is envenomation when it is delivered by an animal that is appropriately equipped. If I (I have never done this) squeezed a rat to death it would be considered animal cruelty. If the snake does it, is not? If I injected a rat with nerve toxin it would be cruelty, but if the snake does it, it is not?The arguments around this subject often defy logic and very often reflect people's own personal definitions of right and wrong rather than reality.

Snakes (virtually any animal) do not have a choice in how they subdue their prey. We do. Whether we choose to respect the life we are taking by making an effort to minimize its pain and suffering, or not, absolutely reflects our own personal definitions of right and wrong.As an aside, this is an interesting read about constriction. http://jeb.biologists.org/content/218/14/2279

[artgecko]

I believe the AVMA recognizes gassing via CO2 and cervical dislocation as the two accepted "humane" ways of euthanizing rodents. Both methods need to be done correctly though. With CO2, you must introduce the CO2 slowly and wait for signs of the rats getting sleepy / passing out, then you crank up the gas once they are out to kill them. If administered too fast, gassing with CO2 will cause the rats to feel suffocation while awake and they will panic and that is not a good way to go. If done properly, they are not awake when they suffocate.

Cervical dislocation can also be humane, but you must know what you are doing. IMO it is harder to do CD humanely than gassing with CO2. I performed CD once and it did not go well...so I will never attempt it again unless I have to. I would only suggest CD if you can watch someone in person that knows what they are doing so that you can learn to do it correctly.

Rat pinks..I believe up to 5-6 days old can be frozen as it is more humane and fast than either CD or gassing with CO2. The pinks cannot regulate their body temps at that age and die very quickly when their body temp drops. They are very difficult to kill with gassing at that age as they naturally have a high tolerance for CO2 to allow them to live in piles with their siblings to maintain heat. Their bones are mostly soft at that stage as well, so it is harder to do a proper CD on them. I believe over 1 week, freezing is no longer humane as they can better regulate their body temps and it takes longer and is more painful.

I would just try feeding frozen thawed. Unless you have a reason to suspect that your snake won't take f/t.