Detailed Purchase (Too Much?)

[Ronniex2]

Hey All,

I was wondering how you all felt about an inquisitive or cautious buyer?

I am attempting to purchase a snake for my little brother so he can get into the hobby as well. He is an experienced snake owner and I have educated him as well as I can with what I know. This “breeding” part being a new venture for me is not so much as a worry as the acquiring of the properly identified morphs from reliable breeders.

My question would be: Is asking for the parent’s copulation asking for too much? I do believe most, if not all breeders, can’t wait for that moment when they catch the snake that they just introduced to the female locked up and snap a picture of the act. As proof that this match was at least achieved and noted as evidence of the performance.

Now besides the horror stories I have heard / read about with the wrong snake being shipped or morphs not being as real or present as depicted on the seller’s website, you have already made the expensive purchase. The fact that you could possibly be waiting 2 years to figure out that your 100%, or 66% Het albino clown or whatever morph you bought, has a full clutch of normals would be dishearten (to some).

I know I am getting long winded here but hear me out...

To put it more simply, I want the guarantee of the snake that I end up purchasing to be as described and portrayed in the pictures provided before the sell. The purchase should come with some kind of proof that that snake mated with this snake, and the buyer should be able to provide this proof that the offspring’s parents are what the seller is claiming them to be.

Too often am I hearing that the male or female has been sold, or they have purchased the snake from another seller and do not own the mating parents or something. I am about to spend a few hundred dollars on my next male and wish to hear what you all think about my concerns as a potential buyer.

Thanks

[StillBP]

It boils down to finding a breeder that you trust. I or anyone can send photos of two snakes locked and say that is where the babies came from. It is trust. Find a breeder you trust. Now most breeders will give a guarantee on genetics but if you don't trust them no guarantee matters. Me, personally i give a written guarantee but again it's just a piece of paper. Since you are concerned about hets I am assuming you are working with recessive genes is your female visual or het. Also remember that even if you breed a visual to a het you are not guaranteed to produce a visual. You have a 50% chance per egg and het to het is only 25% per egg

[ringorock]

A few things here.

1. There is nothing wrong with asking too many questions. Whether the snake is $100 or $3,000, your money earned takes your hard work.
2. Credit card protection is an amazing thing if you have one. You mentioned your little brother, so I'm not going to try and guess your age. But if you do not have one, ask you parents.
3. MorphMarket is an amazing place to help verify morphs. Just plug in the claimed traits and see what they look like. For the most part, most popular morph combos have plenty of examples on the site.

[JodanOrNoDan]

Pictures of a breeding guarantee the possibility of nothing. It would be very possible to fake the whole thing. You either trust a breeder or you do not. The good guys will always fix a problem if a mistake was made. A 66% het guarantees you nothing.

[ladywhipple02]

Agree 100% on asking as many questions as you feel necessary. If someone isn't willing to take the time to answer them, then move along and find someone who is. Every good business owner knows the customer comes first, and they'll be willing to take the time to make you feel comfortable with your purchase.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

To put it more simply, I want the guarantee of the snake that I end up purchasing to be as described and portrayed in the pictures provided before the sell. The purchase should come with some kind of proof that that snake mated with this snake, and the buyer should be able to provide this proof that the offspring’s parents are what the seller is claiming them to be.

I'll bite how do you prove that?

You will not always see a lock from a pair, do you suggest that people stay up around the clock to witness a lock and taking pictures? That would mean while doing so they will likely disturb the animals and then they will not lock.

What if they pair more than one male but only take the picture of one specific lock? What if the picture is 2 years old?

Having a picture of 2 animals locking does not prove a thing.

Over the years I had males from which I never saw anything yet they sired many clutches, does that mean that if there is no picture it did not happen?

So to answer the question YES you are asking too much.

If you want to buy an animal that is what it is, all you have to do is buy from a reputable breeder there are plenty, I can assure you breeders don't spend their time camera handy to in the hope to witness a lock, when you see a picture of a lock it is something that is usually caught while doing maintenance some people will use the opportunity to take a picture some will just shut the enclosure back and leave them alone, and again it does not prove a thing.

Now you can ask what the pairing was and they will answer but your only proof will be the word of a reputable breeder, even paper work is only as good as the breeder is.

[Ronniex2]

A few things here.

1. There is nothing wrong with asking too many questions. Whether the snake is $100 or $3,000, your money earned takes your hard work.
2. Credit card protection is an amazing thing if you have one. You mentioned your little brother, so I'm not going to try and guess your age. But if you do not have one, ask you parents.
3. MorphMarket is an amazing place to help verify morphs. Just plug in the claimed traits and see what they look like. For the most part, most popular morph combos have plenty of examples on the site.

Thanks, but I am 30 and he is 17 & pop's dont care lol…

but yes I am all over Morph Market and other websites to see whats the best price and possibly most quilified breeders are. Wasn’t sure if there were any other reputable sites to get a certified morph, but again like "StillBP" said anyone can Google a pic of a lock, but the breeder is the one who has to prove on their claim on certain genetics and thats where i say how can you(the buyer) B 100% on the claim.

but I was just wondering what you all thought and if I was being a lil OD

[Ronniex2]

thanks, this is helpful, i also agree ...

[Ax01]

find the snake you're interested in, research the breeder's rep and hopefully that will answer/narrow down alotta questions u wanna ask.

asking too many questions can be annoying esp. when the breeder is running a business and esp. if they are vending at a show where they're are many people w/ many questions. i find that most good breeders will provide pairing info up front. also they will not try to oversell u on a possible gene. for example, a good breeder would sell a BEL poss. Pastel if they are unsure of the Pastel gene being present. or sell u Enchi 33% het Pied instead of a het.

i remember a thread w/ a long list of questions to ask before purchase: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ation-Requests and here's a thread w/ a breeder's response: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ers-quot-(Yet) a sale is a too way transaction - both the seller and buyer should be professional and realistic. if a seller feels that you are a tire kicker, they can refuse sale; if the buyer feels the seller deosn't meet their expectation, move on.

Edit: lol why is this thread in the Picture forum?

[JodanOrNoDan]

find the snake you're interested in, research the breeder's rep and hopefully that will answer/narrow down alotta questions u wanna ask.

asking too many questions can be annoying esp. when the breeder is running a business and esp. if they are vending at a show where they're are many people w/ many questions. i find that most good breeders will provide pairing info up front. also they will not try to oversell u on a possible gene. for example, a good breeder would sell a BEL poss. Pastel if they are unsure of the Pastel gene being present. or sell u Enchi 33% het Pied instead of a het.

i remember a thread w/ a long list of questions to ask before purchase: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ation-Requests and here's a thread w/ a breeder's response: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ers-quot-(Yet) a sale is a too way transaction - both the seller and buyer should be professional and realistic. if a seller feels that you are a tire kicker, they can refuse sale; if the buyer feels the seller deosn't meet their expectation, move on.

Edit: lol why is this thread in the Picture forum?

???He wants pictures of the pairing???