Sick snake - Experienced advise wanted

[Lizardlicks]

So Snickerdoodle, the undernourished lesser that came to me with an RI. Temperament wise she seems to be doing alright, not lethargic when I hold her, still seems to have strength and desire to move around and mostly get away from me (obviously, I'm the big scary thing that pokes her with a needle every other day). She even has made a couple passable but rattly attempts to hiss at me, so she's at least feeling feisty. My concern currently is feeding/weight. I feel she's under too much stress from how frequently I have to handle her to administer her antibiotics for her to want to eat on her own. Initially, she did eat a decent sized mouse for me when she first got here, and after a shed and poop she still hung onto the 10 grams she gained from that, but recently she's gone down to 110- less than what she started with. That mouse was on March 10 and she hasn't taken a meal since.

Given her starting weight, current weight, body condition, level of illness, and level of stress, how hard should I be thinking about putting more stress on her by attempting an assist feed?

[JodanOrNoDan]

Depends on how the animal looks. Are there wrinkles (dehydration)? Pronounced backbone? Can you see or feel ribs? You are experienced enough to know how bad the animal actually is. What did the vet say? Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do if you know what I mean.

[Albert Clark]

Depends on how the animal looks. Are there wrinkles (dehydration)? Pronounced backbone? Can you see or feel ribs? You are experienced enough to know how bad the animal actually is. What did the vet say? Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do if you know what I mean.

Sorry for your dilemma Liz. It's always best during times when a animal is on antibiotic therapy to assure that they are well hydrated. As they go forward, and get to the point where they begin to refuse food which may only be short lived, fluid replacement and liquid nutrition should be the primary intervention over solid food. So, i would refrain from the assist feeding and be sure to administer Lacto Acidophilus Bacillus, ie Benebac, or a probiotic supplement that can replace the beneficial gut bacteria that the antibiotics are killing off. You can also use Pedialite as a liquid fluid replacement in the water dish for drinking and soaking. Just double check with the vet to get the best possible advice in any case. Good luck and dont worry.

[Lizardlicks]

Thank you guys! She actually came to me already thin, and was sold to me as "a finicky eater". It became very apparent that she was actually sick with in the first few days, so she's already been at the point where she's refusing food before treatment. She didn't start out with much reserves, and she's VERY steeply triangle shaped right now. Hard to find any muscle padding to put the injections into.

My vet is pretty good, but not so much a reptile vet as an exotics vet that will see reptiles, so I'm not always entirely confident in his advice. He'll sometimes say things that apply to other snakes and reptiles, but not ball pythons in specific, or things that are outdated (such as suggesting UV for basking, or saying a snake that know to be female is actually male because of her spur size). He actually wasn't going to do a culture for the RI at first, but did it anyway at my insistence. Thing is, I've dealt almost entirely with healthy snakes that have been in my care since they were babies. I know what a snake with a good body condition and healthy weight can take if they refuse food, but Snickers is so dramatically NOT a healthy size compared to my other snakes that any downward trend is alarming, so I don't quite trust my own judgement either.

I'll definitely grab some benebac for her water though. I've been keeping her humidity and temps up, and will be trying out an F-10 treatment this weekend once the fogger I ordered gets here, so hydration should still be good.

[Albert Clark]

Thank you guys! She actually came to me already thin, and was sold to me as "a finicky eater". It became very apparent that she was actually sick with in the first few days, so she's already been at the point where she's refusing food before treatment. She didn't start out with much reserves, and she's VERY steeply triangle shaped right now. Hard to find any muscle padding to put the injections into.

My vet is pretty good, but not so much a reptile vet as an exotics vet that will see reptiles, so I'm not always entirely confident in his advice. He'll sometimes say things that apply to other snakes and reptiles, but not ball pythons in specific, or things that are outdated (such as suggesting UV for basking, or saying a snake that know to be female is actually male because of her spur size). He actually wasn't going to do a culture for the RI at first, but did it anyway at my insistence. Thing is, I've dealt almost entirely with healthy snakes that have been in my care since they were babies. I know what a snake with a good body condition and healthy weight can take if they refuse food, but Snickers is so dramatically NOT a healthy size compared to my other snakes that any downward trend is alarming, so I don't quite trust my own judgement either.

I'll definitely grab some benebac for her water though. I've been keeping her humidity and temps up, and will be trying out an F-10 treatment this weekend once the fogger I ordered gets here, so hydration should still be good.

OK. Gotcha. But remember the Benebac is for the intestinal flora and should be given by mouth. It can be a powder that has to be mixed with water or the pre-mixed liquid version which is easier to work with. The pedialite is a fluid replacement that can be instilled in the drinking water and the soaking dish.

[Lizardlicks]

Noted. She doesn't have a dish big enough for soaking as I'm keeping her in a smaller (hatchling) tub right now to minimize stress as much as possible, but she seems to be staying hydrated for the moment.

[Kcl]

It may well be easier on her system to give something like oxbow's carnivore care as it is more easily digestible than whole prey and digestion will be much harder on her with the reduced gut flora. The goal would be to get her sufficient nutrients to keep her stable until she's well enough to be willing to eat again. Definitely ask a vet before proceeding with any options - assist feeding or syringe feeding - but carnivore care can be a solid option in situations like this where the snake needs supportive nutrition as it recovers enough to eat real food.

Edit: Also, obviously never try syringe feeding without someone qualified teaching you. I assume you know that but just so it's there. No punctured tracheas please.

[Lizardlicks]

It may well be easier on her system to give something like oxbow's carnivore care as it is more easily digestible than whole prey and digestion will be much harder on her with the reduced gut flora. The goal would be to get her sufficient nutrients to keep her stable until she's well enough to be willing to eat again. Definitely ask a vet before proceeding with any options - assist feeding or syringe feeding - but carnivore care can be a solid option in situations like this where the snake needs supportive nutrition as it recovers enough to eat real food.

Edit: Also, obviously never try syringe feeding without someone qualified teaching you. I assume you know that but just so it's there. No punctured tracheas please.

I was going to stop by the vet tomorrow, I will ask him about it then!

[Lizardlicks]

I just realized I said her current weight but not what it started as. The day I got her she was 131g. After eating the mouse she jumped up to 146 and held steady at about 141 after a shed and a poop. The drop to 110 is what concerned me given that she's not got a lot to lose in the first place.

[bcr229]

I would ask the vet if he is comfortable with tube-feeding the Carnivore Care. You can also mix some of the probiotic powder with it so you know your snake got a dose.

If your vet isn't a true exotics specialist you should probably find one, even if you have to travel a few hours.

Also antibiotics are pretty hard on a snake's kidneys so I wouldn't recommend giving a lot of food at once.