SD Retic nose rubbing / viv size question?

[Auriga]

At some point, I would like to purchase a 50% SD retic. But, I'm worried about nose rubbing, as well as the vet bills that would follow - so I'm aiming for a female since males (apparently) are more likely to do it, especially during breeding season. I believe the behaviour comes down to an active species being kept in too small commercially available enclosures, though I could be wrong. Still, I'm stressing about it, as the last thing I want is to buy a vivarium, only to have the animal in question nose rubbing because it's not large or stimulating enough. Any advice? Is there a particular enclosure size that is optimum? Or do you just have to take the plunge and hope the snake won't rub?

[Sauzo]

Each snake is going to be different. And I don't think sex will make a difference. Jmcrook's Phyllis is a female and she goes bonkers. My Caesar is a male and he goes bonkers. Gio's Wallace is a male and is quieter. And Cloud's Riverrun is pretty quiet too. I was told by Kris at Vital Exotics where I got Caesar from that a 4x2 will be fine for him his whole life. He is a 37.5% SD, 31.5% dwarf and 31% mainland. I will probably move him to a AP T25 later though.

Caesar rubs when he's hungry, not usually otherwise as he is fairly quiet unless hungry. With that said, I got him at 5 months old and 2'. He was eating small rats every 4 days. Now he's 9 months old and 5' and eats large rats every 10 days. So my advice is be prepared for something that LIKES to eat and needs to eat. These aren't boas where you feed them something their width or slightly smaller every month. These snakes need to eat and like to eat big. If you don't feed them, they will destroy themselves trying to find food. Now this doesn't apply to all retics as Gio's Wallace is not very food driven and either is Cloud's Riverrun who is a female. Mine and Jmcrooks are very food driven.

Also temperaments will vary as well. Some will be laid back and some wont. I believe Gio's Wallace has taken a shot at him and does piss on him a couple times. Same with Jmcrook's Phyllis. She has pissed on him a couple time but not sure if she has a taken a shot at him. Don't know about Cloud's Riverrun. Caesar has never taken a shot at me, he has taken a shot at the snake hook as he hates it so I use a twisted paper towel to bonk on his head when he gets excited. It calms him down. He has never pissed or pooped on me. He does love to explore probably 80% of the time. The other 20% he is a lounger and just sits on me. He does have his moments where he doesn't want to socialize and those are easy to read as he will push my hand away with his body and if I continue to bug him, he just tries to go to other side of the cage lol.

So bottom line is some feel they need huge cages just like boas but maybe my snakes are the exception but they really aren't that active unless they are hungry. Then they use every inch of their cage. Otherwise for about 90% of the time, they are content to just curl up on the heater or cool side or half stretch out. I do interact and take them out usually 2-3 times or more a week.

And with all that said!!! Here is the mandatory picture of Caesar being Caesar!!

[Auriga]

Each snake is going to be different. And I don't think sex will make a difference. Jmcrook's Phyllis is a female and she goes bonkers. My Caesar is a male and he goes bonkers. Gio's Wallace is a male and is quieter. And Cloud's Riverrun is pretty quiet too. I was told by Kris at Vital Exotics where I got Caesar from that a 4x2 will be fine for him his whole life. He is a 37.5% SD, 31.5% dwarf and 31% mainland. I will probably move him to a AP T25 later though.

Caesar rubs when he's hungry, not usually otherwise as he is fairly quiet unless hungry. With that said, I got him at 5 months old and 2'. He was eating small rats every 4 days. Now he's 9 months old and 5' and eats large rats every 10 days. So my advice is be prepared for something that LIKES to eat and needs to eat. These aren't boas where you feed them something their width or slightly smaller every month. These snakes need to eat and like to eat big. If you don't feed them, they will destroy themselves trying to find food. Now this doesn't apply to all retics as Gio's Wallace is not very food driven and either is Cloud's Riverrun who is a female. Mine and Jmcrooks are very food driven.

Also temperaments will vary as well. Some will be laid back and some wont. I believe Gio's Wallace has taken a shot at him and does piss on him a couple times. Same with Jmcrook's Phyllis. She has pissed on him a couple time but not sure if she has a taken a shot at him. Don't know about Cloud's Riverrun. Caesar has never taken a shot at me, he has taken a shot at the snake hook as he hates it so I use a twisted paper towel to bonk on his head when he gets excited. It calms him down. He has never pissed or pooped on me. He does love to explore probably 80% of the time. The other 20% he is a lounger and just sits on me. He does have his moments where he doesn't want to socialize and those are easy to read as he will push my hand away with his body and if I continue to bug him, he just tries to go to other side of the cage lol.

So bottom line is some feel they need huge cages just like boas but maybe my snakes are the exception but they really aren't that active unless they are hungry. Then they use every inch of their cage. Otherwise for about 90% of the time, they are content to just curl up on the heater or cool side or half stretch out. I do interact and take them out usually 2-3 times or more a week.

And with all that said!!! Here is the mandatory picture of Caesar being Caesar!!

Wow! I wasn't expecting to get that much info, but I'm really glad I did! Thanks so much for going in-depth, I really appreciate it. And I have to say, Caesar is one gorgeous snake!

[cchardwick]

I have two reticulated pythons, I have them in ARS tubs (both with windows on the front) in a rack and have never experienced either one of them pacing the cage or rubbing their noses. I use Reptichip substrate, spray down the substrate with water twice a week, and offer food twice a week. They are fat and happy and very content. I had my bigger one refuse her rat last time I fed, but when she wants food she comes up to the tub window and gives me the hungry eye LOL. I think it was that big extra jumbo rat I gave her, probably was full for the whole week. Once she gets up to rabbit sized food she may not eat as often, maybe every 1-2 weeks. Once I see my snakes getting on the fat / heavy side I cut back to feeding every three weeks or so.

I think the key to them not rubbing is keeping them very well fed in an enclosed space with solid walls on all sides, no lights in the enclosure, but still have a small window where they can look out since they are a very smart and curious snake. I think large tubs with small windows work the best. Seems like the traditional retic enclosure has lights on the inside and is very open and exposed with a full glass front, not sure I agree that it's best for the snake's sense of security.

[bcr229]

I've only had two males rub, both were mature adults in enclosures where they had plenty of room - a 12' in an 8'x30"x18" enclosure, and an SD in a 48"x30"18". They got "smash face" badly enough that I took them to the vet. X-rays showed an abscessed tooth. What we don't know is if the infection caused pain which caused the rubbing/pushing, or if the rubbing/pushing caused a broken tooth which got infected.

Both are fine now with no rubbing after the bad tooth was removed and some antibiotics.

[jmcrook]

As Sauzo said about my SD gal, Phyllis... she's generally pretty chill providing she's got a belly full of rodents. Right after she's takes a poo and is hungry again she starts destroying her cage. Pushing at everything, knocking things over, smashing her face against the doors. She's in a 4'x2'x1' animal Plastics T8, which in hindsight I definitely wish I had gotten something taller for her. I've read that offering a taller enclosure will sometimes deter pushing. She's only gotten abrasions from pushing once and I found out it was because she can fit her whole head between the litter dam and sliding door track on the right side of the cage. I filled that gap with a strip of foam core and haven't had any pushing wounds since. Kind of annoying though because it acts like a door jam and I can't open the left door that way. Going to see if Animal Plastics will make a custom mod to my next cage so that the bottom sliding door track can sit higher and flush with the litter dam at the front of the cage to eliminate the small gap between the right sliding door and the front panel of the enclosure. That's when I move her to either a t13 or a t25.
(Insert obligatory Phyllis photo



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[Sauzo]

Lol yup Caesar is the same way. As long as his tummy is full, he's pretty quiet. Once the deuce is dropped, all bets are off and he's off to the tracks destroying his cage haha.

[Sauzo]

I think the key to them not rubbing is keeping them very well fed in an enclosed space with solid walls on all sides, no lights in the enclosure, but still have a small window where they can look out since they are a very smart and curious snake. I think large tubs with small windows work the best. Seems like the traditional retic enclosure has lights on the inside and is very open and exposed with a full glass front, not sure I agree that it's best for the snake's sense of security.

I disagree there. I have Caesar and all my snakes in AP cages with lighting and also in 40 gallon breeder tanks for quarantine and they all are fine and very relaxed. Heck my boas don't even use hides and half the time Caesar is laying around outside lol. Only time he really uses a hide is when shedding. For security, that's why you give them hides. Once they are used to smells and vibrations in their area, most settle in fine. I've had my boas for years and I would be willing to bet you couldn't get Rosey to bite you unless you smelled like a rat or REALLY hurt her. Even stabbing a needle into her nose from my vet to check a sinus infection she had didn't even prompt so much as a hiss or flinch really. My vet and the nurse were floored by how well mannered Rosey was and said I must have shown her lots of love for her to be relaxed. Even Caesar is really mellow and I've only had him about 4.5 months. I'm a risk taker though and I let him cruise the bed(I know, god forbid he ever pisses on the bed) and he loves it. He stops to check everything out on the bed and I can easily just reach over and grab him and slide him back to me if I'm watching tv. Of course 90% of the time he just goes wandering off again haha. He's as bad as Dottie about sitting still.

Anyways, there is nothing wrong with glass fronted cages with lighting. I can give you 6 examples of it lol. It comes down to providing them with a secure place where they can get away and just be alone or at least feel alone as like I said, my boas don't even use hides except Rango but his hide use is half hearted as he sits there about 1/3 out of the hide 24/7 anyways haha. So not much of a 'hiding' place lol. And he's also only 11 months old so he's still a baby.

I do agree though that keeping them well fed is good but I wouldn't do 2 times a week. Even Caesar at 5 months old at the height of his 'FEED ME!!' fiasco was eating a small rat every 4 days. The thing is get the right size. I believe I was underfeeding Caesar. Now that he gets a large rat, he is content for 10 days in between feedings. Maybe more but I wont be able to check until he is out of shed. But I believe a large rat every 10-14 days is what will work for him but we'll find out in a couple weeks haha.