Anyone ever have rats just fall over dead?

[cchardwick]

I've been having the strangest thing going on in my rat colony. Every week or two, sometimes every few days I have a rat just fall over dead. Sometimes it's adult males, sometimes young weanlings. Seems like it's not in any particular tank. I started adding extra water bottles just in case some were not working, but I still have random deaths. I'm thinking it may be from the altitude since my elevation is close to 9000 feet above sea level? Or maybe a genetic defect? Seems like it happens in certain groups like it may be genetic... I wonder how many random deaths you can expect in a colony of rats. I usually have about 50 rats of various ages at any one time. The rats that die don't appear to be sick at all. None show signs of sickness or distress. Seems very odd. In the last six months or so I've probably lost about 15 rats out of probably 500. I also breed mice and African Soft Fur rats, never really had a death in those colonies except when adults eat the babies, then it's a mess.

[Ba11er]

I don't know if it's possible but I would try to isolate the bins where a rat dies and see if others start dying too. In a situation like this meticulous record keeping helps a lot. If it is genetic you'll be able to pinpoint who carries the bad genes and eliminate them from your breeding stock.

I would also makes sure they aren't overcrowded and that everyone has access to food. I just noticed for the fist time a rat being food aggressive to the point that the others around it were not eathing normally.

Rats are hardy animals so altitude isn't a factor I would consider but their is the potential for parasites. You could have a vet do a necroposy on t the next one that dies.

[piedlover79]

I don't know what your population vs space looks like but check out the Behavior Sink experiments. It showed that once rat populations reach a certain over crowding that death and other anomalies can develop even if there is more than enough food to go around. I'm sure your tubs aren't over crowded to the extreme that the ones in the experiment were but it is still an interesting look into rat behavior and health.

[cchardwick]

I'm actually using glass tanks with screen tops. None are over populated. I'm actually in the process of replacing all my breeders, I'm holding back all of the albinos and getting rid of all the colored / patterned rats. I'll see what happens after that, it may change up the genetics a bit.

[distaff]

Ammonia build up can be a problem in tanks.

If they died of dehydration, I'd expect you should be able to tell by sunken eyes. I would probably switch out the food for a time, to see if that might be the cause.

Have you seen them just up and die, or do you walk in to find them dead?

Do they generally seem mellow, and easy-going or stressed out? It may be an old wives' tale, but supposedly rabbits can die simply from fear - gives them a heart attack. Anything that could scare them, like a loose snake?

If they were my rats, I'd open a few up myself, and if there was nothing obviously out of order, just curiosity would probably be enough to get me to spend the money for a necropsy. Nothing like a good medical mystery.

Good luck ending it, and please keep us posted.

[distaff]

ETA: I loose one perfectly good young rabbit about once a year. I just find them dead, or, like a couple months ago, find a stiff, mostly paralised but still living rabbit, that doesn't get better.

These guys are VERY well looked after, housed, watered and fed. I don't have predator problems. What I HAVE found is the occasional black widow and other unidentified spiders inside their wooden shelter boxes.

Don't know if spiders are the cause of not in my rabbits' deaths, just throwing it out there for you to consider.

[wolfy-hound]

What are you feeding the rat colony? Including any treats. Any decorations or chews in the tanks that might be questionable? Any sprays, air fresheners etc used near the room?

[cchardwick]

Well this is really weird, I just did a full round of five days of antibiotic in their water. I did find a few that looked a bit weak and I fed those off, then did the antibiotic. Everyone seemed OK. Last night I changed over to water, gave fresh food and replaced all the bedding with pine shavings. Today I found another rat that just fell over dead... One thing I did notice is that I'm using Velcro inside of my tanks to hold up the water bottles. I did see one of the rats in that tank eating the Velcro, maybe the Velcro is killing them??????????

For food I use my own mixture of feed store grains and food: Whole corn / cracked corn / sunflower seeds / nutty bird food (all nuts) / 16% pig feed pellets / COB - corn oats and barley / and oats. I mix it up in a 5 gallon bucket and then feed them the mix, I replace it every day. No overcrowding at all, about 4 adult rats per 40 gallon, maybe less than a dozen young rats in a 40 gallon. I have them in glass aquariums with screen tops. None looked sick last night, I even sorted through them by hand to check them all out, one just fell over dead. There's probably 50-70 rats in my colony at any one time.

[voodoolamb]

The dried corn maybe the culprit. Dried corn is often contaminated with mold spores that are toxic to rats. Your deaths could be the unlucky ones that grabbed contaminated kernels.

Overall, that diet isn't very balanced. It is high in fat and missing some key nutrients. I imagine that the pig feed is vitamin and mineral fortified but if you have selective feeders then it is possible they are keeling over due to deficiencies.

If you are going to make your own mix, you'll need to run the numbers:

http://ratfanclub.org/nutreq.html

I'd switch them to a lab block.

[cchardwick]

Where can I get a lab block? I went to Mazuri.com and they want $34.99 plus $20 shipping for 50 pounds!!