Had to force feed my twin ball pythons... what now?

[Oxylepy]

So I hatched 8 snakes and got them in individual tubs, etc etc. Standard hatchling care, as has been stated numerous times for advice here.
They're in a room with our bugs (feeders for other reptiles), and are completely left alone other than feeding and cleaning, the sound in there isn't much (the crickets don't chirp, and the other insects don't make noise and nothing is out messing with the BPs).

After 6 of the BPs have got to the point of being decent eaters or amazing eaters, two still hadn't eaten. A 30 and 20 gram. They got skinny, to the point of having terrifyingly thin bellies because they hadn't eaten mice or rats that were offered, live or frozen. Finally I caved and forced pinkies, which was one of the most stressful and depressing moments I have ever had with a ball python. It really hurt to do.

What should I do now? I am going to wait a week and offer food again, but... how can I make things easier on them? Outside the standard hatchling protocal, I have no idea. Aspen, 6" hide, water, 6qt tub, temps are right in their tubs... Nothing else? Maybe I could darken their tubs a bit by putting something around it to help reduce the light level? I dunno. At the moment I'm hoping that once they digest they won't be so bad with food. Maybe I should wait 10 days instead of 7?

[juggalosnakes]

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2014/08...thon-appetite/

[Albert Clark]

Wow! Sorry to hear that but congrats on the ones that are eating. 20 and 30 grams is frighteningly underweight. Consider triple checking your husbandry b4 you force feed a second time. Check Deborah's "hatchling care 101" which is a sticky. Make sure to give the two of them a bigger water bowl. Don't handle them anymore except to spot clean and not until they have eaten four times consistently. Force feeds really stress the baby. Good luck.

[Oxylepy]

Regretably, that was their birth weights. I haven't been tracking their weights since then because I'd rather get a few feedings in before bothering the snakes. Actually, I haven't weighed any of them a second time yet. Either bad timing (shed), feeding day, or I've been busy with life. Two others hadn't been eating so I changed the room the snakes were in to one which had little to no activity. That was a month ago, and they've been eating since then. But now the twins were at 2 months, flattening in their stomachs (intestinal tract region) and I just didn't think they'd make it any longer without food.

Now it's just... waiting, I guess... which had been my intent, but I was hoping for... something better I could do?

[bcr229]

Assist feeding is just one of those skills you eventually develop if you have baby snakes. With the history on these two I probably would have started four weeks ago given their low birth weight.

From my experience:

Trying to assist feed mouse pinkies alone is worthless. As I'm sure you discovered - and not to be too gross about it - they fall apart during the process. They're not stiff enough to be useful in getting the snake's mouth to open up, so it can take a few minutes to get the pinky into the snake's mouth. Once you do get that done, if the snake puts a few teeth into the pinky and breaks its skin, the pinky turns to mush, the snake spits it out, and you have to start over.

There's a much easier and less stressful way of getting the job done. With a bit of practice it should take no more than a few minutes per snake.

Warm up one f/t jumbo mouse as well as the feeders for each snake, usually mouse pinkies or fuzzies. Cut the hind legs off of the warmed jumbo mouse, the same way you would if carving the leg/thigh off of a roast chicken or turkey. If you angle the knife right you can even remove some extra skin/fur from the mouse's side. Feed off the jumbo mouse body to something else like a king snake in your collection.

Once everything is ready, pick up one of the jumbo mouse hind legs and fold it so you're holding the toes and cut end in your fingertips. Push the folded hock joint into the snake's mouth; the cut end and the mouse's toes will go in last. It's easy to pop the snake's mouth open since the leg has the femur in it that you can use for leverage. The leg is hard for the snake to spit out if the hock joint is in first, as it wants to flex open, so it catches behind the snake's teeth. You can also push on the femur bone a bit with your pinky to move it along once it's in the snake's mouth, though this is a good way to get bit. The leg goes down easier if it's damp.

Watch for the snake to start swallowing the hind leg, and have the whole prey feeder ready to go. As soon as you see the leg going down the hatch, sneak the feeder's head into the snake's mouth while it's open. Don't try to force the feeder down the snake's throat, just support it while the snake is eating the mouse hind leg. Eventually the snake's teeth will grab the feeder and it will get swallowed as well.

Repeat weekly but give them the opportunity to eat their feeders on their own before assisting. Also look for other signs of food response, like wrapping the feeder once they have a hold of it, that will let you know they're getting closer to eating on their own.

[Oxylepy]

That's actually a great idea, however I'll save it for 2 weeks from now. I really would rather avoid continuing this painful process, unless it continues to be necessary.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Did you for feed or assist feed those are very different, in ten year I might have FORCE feed 2 animals, now assisting is a bit more common and I have to do so every year with a few animals.

Assisting usually does not last very long 1, 2, 3 feeding at the most and they usually get the idea.

Provide a 6 inches plastic flower pot saucer if you don't already, provide temps no higher than 86/88 on the warm side.

If you assist you want to do it with a fuzzy. Assist do not force, it's a lot less trauma, but you need to learn how to do it right.

Try the brown paper trick with a live fuzzy left with the snake overnight in the brown paper bag.

When I assist multiple times I do it after a failure and if necessary but I always try to get them to eat on their own first each week, and if it fails and it is necessary I assist the following day.

[Oxylepy]

It was force/in between feeding. Placing it in their mouths lead to nothing but them spitting it out 3 times each. So I had to nudge it in enough to get the head down their throat and massage their throat until they stopped trying to remove it and began swallowing. Then I put them back in their tubs (removed them to assist and then force, didn't want that associated with their tubs) and left them alone for a while, they didn't regurgitate it and moved back into their hides (the only instance of me bothering them again was to check for regurgitation).

They have terra cota hides instead of plastic ones, due to their availability (plastic ones I couldn't find locally after checking a few places). And they are the 6" flour base ones. The tape is set to 33c, which is about 88-89 in their tubs. Ambient is about 75 in the room.

Brown paper bag I'll try for their next couple feedings.