Champagne Breeding

[butterballpython]

OK, this girl is still young (404 grams last weekend) and I probably won't ever breed, but these thoughts have been running through my head anyway.

She is a champagne from a champagne x champagne breeding. Both sets of grandparents are champagne x normal, so there's plenty of champagne in her background. I've heard it's best not to get too into the champagne gene because of facial deformities, but also that those are rare and not to worry about it. If I were to bred her, would it be better to use another champagne because she already has so much champagne going on and people might find the babies desirable because of that, or go with another morph? If so, which morph would you use?

Another question. Temperament tendencies tend to be hereditary. That's why we have dog breeds that are better at herding, or going after vermin, or other such things. She is not an interactive snake, and even though I really like her champagne head marking, I seldom get to see it up close because when she's picked up, she'll roll herself into the tightest ball imaginable with her head out of sight in the middle. I'd like to see that little head more often. *sigh* She's also the only one who's ever bit me. I get to see her head when she's striking, but that's not really on my joy list. Would it be better to use a male like my butter, who is so easy going he doesn't even care if the dog sniffs or licks him? Thoughts?

I won't be back to the computer today, but will check this thread when I return. Hopefully by then I'll have some great input. Thanks!

[butterballpython]

Also--my butter is from a nuclear champagne x normal breeding, so he has a little champagne in his background, too.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I've heard it's best not to get too into the champagne gene because of facial deformities

That would be Black Pastel and Cinnamon.

Issues with Champagne are possible wobbling and some Lethal combos. http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

If I were to bred her, would it be better to use another champagne because she already has so much champagne going on and people might find the babies desirable because of that, or go with another morph? If so, which morph would you use?

I would avoid Champagne, Spider see above (Lethal Combos)

I would go with Enchi or Leopard Combo.

She is not an interactive snake, and even though I really like her champagne head marking, I seldom get to see it up close because when she's picked up, she'll roll herself into the tightest ball imaginable with her head out of sight in the middle. I'd like to see that little head more often. *sigh* She's also the only one who's ever bit me. I get to see her head when she's striking, but that's not really on my joy list. Would it be better to use a male like my butter, who is so easy going he doesn't even care if the dog sniffs or licks him? Thoughts?

You are dealing with a simple brain wild animal lacking the frontal lobe of it's brain, expectations in dog breeding versus snake breeding are totally different.

[Dave Green]

Also--my butter is from a nuclear champagne x normal breeding, so he has a little champagne in his background, too.

Champagne is inc. dom so it's either a champagne or it's not. It doesn't matter what his parents were, it either has the champagne gene or it doesn't.

[Hannahshissyfix]

If she's only 400g then it's normal for them to be more timid and ball up or an occasional defensive bite. But as mentioned, temperament is animal to animal and not morph specific.

[Trisnake]

Don't breed champagne to champagne. The super champagne is, from what we can gather, a lethal homozygous form of the gene and anybody breeding champagne combos together should think very, very hard about the possibility of a quarter of their clutch dying in the egg. Because, if the odds are right, it's a very real possibility.

I think the breeder you bought your baby from was very irresponsible in pairing two champagnes together. Just because he/she did it and (I guess) is successful in selling their animals does not mean his practices are good or should be followed. I know that you (OP) obviously didn't know about the issues with the pairing and probably assumed it is perfectly fine considering the person you bought your animal from did it, but I guess that's just what I'm trying to warn you against. Not everyone who breeds these animals does it ethically.

I would suggest reading some of the resources posted here on this thread and elsewhere on the site, just to familiarize yourself with the genes and get a better concept of bp genetics (bc there's a lot to learn when you're interested in breeding ball morphs), and see if it's something you really want to get into. Theres a lot of responsibility involved with every aspect of owning and breeding, and that goes for any species.

Also, on a side note, I would like to mention that temperament can be hereditary. So while it may not be morph related, it can definitely be passed down from the parents as a polygenic trait. If your female champagne doesn't grow out of her skittishness and just honestly turns out to be a naturally fearful animal, you could see some of that in her offspring. Same with your Lesser's laid back attitude. So hypothetically if you bred them together most babies would be somewhere in between mom and dad's personalities.

[Trisnake]

Also, I've never heard of a trend of facial deformities in champagnes. I believe you may have been misinformed.... champagnes DO, however, sometimes exhibit neurological issues that are very similar to the issues with the spider gene (wobbling, spinning, listlessness).

Though these issues hardly ever affect the animals ability to thrive as a "normal" ball python, some people speculate that it is the reason, when affected animals are bred together, that the offspring super spider, super champagne, and spider champagne cannot survive outside the egg.

[butterballpython]

OK, I asked for good input and I got it. Thanks.

Now I know that if I ever decide to breed, to keep the champagne away from any morphs that wobble. Believe it or not, she's been here for nearly four months, and I can't tell you if she wobbles or not! When I open the door to the room, if she's outside a hide she heads straight into a hide and balls up. When she's picked up, she's always in a ball with her head in the middle and stays that way. She will not reach for a rat, the only way she'll eat is if I lay the rat at the entrance of the hide that she's in a the minute and leave the room for a few hours. If I go into the room before then and the rat is not eaten, we start again from square one. The only time I've seen her un-balled up close was when I was cleaning her cage after a shed and poop, and she decided to try to escape. She wound herself around the rack, so she was supported and there was no opportunity to wobble.

My normal girl is almost as easy going as the male. She shed last night, and this morning I was glad to see that the ugly scab across her belly that was there when I bought her in June is now completely healed. There's no sign of it any more.

So far I've never bred a snake, all three are fairly recent purchases. The male arrived in May, and he's my first snake. He is such a nice pet that I decided to get a few more. Then came the champagne, and she's been a bit of a challenge. After that I got the normal, and she's also a good-natured pet. It's unlikely that I'll ever breed snakes, but I did want to know just in case.

Thanks for all this info.

[butterballpython]

Last night she stuck her head out while I was getting ready to put her rat in her cage, and she took it while I was still standing there! This is a move in the right direction! A first! Yeaahhh!