Performing with snakes: Too Stressful for BPs?

[Siren]

Hello, all.

I'm starting this with a sad story. I am a belly dancer, and for a couple of years, I had a beautiful ball python pet who would occasionally dance with me at performances. He developed a massive bacterial infection and died suddenly a couple of years ago. He was a beloved pet, so I still struggle with his death to this day.

When he died, I took him to his herp vet for an autopsy to figure out what happened. After the vet gave his diagnosis, he stated that ball pythons become sick very easily when stressed, and that BPs can be stressed by loud noise, sudden movements, etc. I told him that I am a belly dancer and that my snake was sometimes a companion of mine onstage. I am not a BP behavioural expert, but my snake did not seem to exhibit the typical signs of stress during these performances (though he did take a few moments to come out of his ball before we went onstage in a new environment, which was why I took time to get him comfortable on my shoulders and 'unwound' before attempting to perform with him.)

The vet didn't quite scold me, but it was clear that he did not approve. He told me that snakes were not performance creatures, especially ball pythons. He told me that loud music and crowds would be a very stressful environment for ball pythons, and that BPs in fact should be handled minimally and treated more as an "observational" pet, like a fish, rather than handled regularly or taken outside the home.

I had never heard this before, and I know of fellow performers who also dance with ball pythons, so I was inclined no to believe him, but he is a herp vet, with far more extensive knowledge about BP behaviour than I certainly have. Now that I am considering getting another BP, I would love to hear from all of you long-experienced BP owners about this. Do BPs lack the constitution to perform with a dancer, even with "training?" (controlled exposure to people, loud noises like music, and dance movements) If I wanted to perform with my new BP, would I be putting their health at risk? Did my performing with my snake contribute to his death? (don't worry about hurting my feelings on this one--I already blame myself for not getting him to the vet in time to save him. If I contributed to his death in another way, I want to know so I don't repeat this with another pet.)

Any insight is much appreciated. I would love to have a BP again, even if I don't perform with them.

Thank you so much!

~Siren

[redshepherd]

Yes, that would be a very stressful environment for any snake... Ball pythons in particular are easily stressed out if just something isn't right, whether it's even just temperature or humidity inside their own enclosure, or if they even just need one extra hide.

They could be handled gently regularly though, so still not exactly like fish. But even being taken outside of the home for an hour or two is a stressful trip for a ball python.

Unfortunately, ball pythons are very instinct-based and can't be "trained" like a dog or cat. You can't train them to get "used to" loud environments and incorrect temperatures, for example, just because you expose it to improper temperatures often. That would simple lead to stress, illness, and probably early death like in your case.

ETA: A ball python can be completely stressed out and not show any particular signs at all. Sometimes, they can even be ill for months and not show any particular change in behavior, until they suddenly become severely sick and die in the next week.

[redshepherd]

Sorry for the double post, but this suddenly reminded me- back when I was 11 years old and didn't have much common sense yet, I asked a forum if I could bring my ball python (that I didn't have yet) to the beach or the shopping mall with me. Someone replied, explaining how crazy that was and how stressful that would be for the snake, and called me a dummy. :\

Other than the part about ball pythons only being there to observe (which I'm thinking was just said to keep you from bringing another snake to a dance stage), your herp vet is absolutely correct.

[DennisM]

Do BPs lack the constitution to perform with a dancer, even with "training?"

Yes they do. They can’t be trained.

Did my performing with my snake contribute to his death?

That’s impossible to say. Best case scenario is that the snake was exposed to an extremely stressful situation that was certainly not in its best interest.

I want to know so I don't repeat this with another pet

Don’t ever perform with a BP or any other reptile again. These are not social animals. It’s a frightening experience for them and they may or may not show it.

[O'Mathghamhna]

I have brought my eldest BP along as a prop when I volunteered at a local haunted house here in town, but I've decided I'm not going to do it anymore due to the stress it no doubt brings her. I'm glad you posted what you did because it reaffirms my decision. A lot of people take their snakes out and use them in performance but I just don't know how I feel about it since it's hard enough to tell when something is wrong with a BP when it's moderately healthy and just going through a non-eating phase. My snake never missed a beat with her feeding schedule, pooping, peeing or shedding so I ASSUMED that taking her with me to the haunted house didn't do any harm, but what do I know?

I have come to realize over the years that the more I appreciate the ball python, the more I realize I am here for their stewardship, and not vice-versa. If I can make their lives here easier and more pleasant, then so be it. Even if that means I don't get to hold them or "play with them" as much, that's fine with me because I think it's best for the snake.

That's my two cents, anyway.

[Dezoruba]

I imagine it would be incredibly stressful on them. Your vet is right- listen to him.

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[RiA MaU]

Everyone is right. They're both picky and instinctual. Even the slightest change in the tank can stress them. If you'd never heard of it before your own pet died, I'd say you hadn't done much research on them before you bought one. No offence, but you should definitely research an animal's behaviors and needs before you buy any pet. It's an unfortunate story, but hopefully it doesn't happen again.

[JodanOrNoDan]

Ok, I'm going to rock the boat in order to clarify some things. Can ball pythons be trained? Depends on your definition of trained. Can they be conditioned? Absolutely. Guys you can't have it both ways. Snakes that are conditioned to eat outside their container can become nippy right? If so you have conditioned them to eat when they come out.

I am going to maintain that if the animal is eating and shedding properly the animal is not stressed. Can loud music especially bass irritate a ball python? Yes, but not all of them care.

Should the OP have taken the snake dancing? Its her snake. If the snake is behaving normally this activity in and of itself probably did not stress the animal into death. I call bull kaka on the vet and the people that say otherwise. Most of my animals would not be bothered by this. If my youngest daughter has not stressed mine to death it is probably not going to happen. There is nothing quite like seeing your 2k animal go running full tilt down the hallway while being held by a yelling 5 year old (timeout time). My snakes end up playing house, playing snake store and watching My Little Pony. They are fine.

What the OP has done that I don't do is allow my snakes to leave the house. If I could bet on it I would say that the temps of the environment were out of the acceptable range for too long or most likely the snake just caught something. This is the same reason I think it is absolutely insane to do something like take your animal into a PetCo.

[Siren]

I probably should have clarified that my snake died just under 11 months after I last performed with him. I sometimes took him out on the porch or in the yard on humid days, but he died in March in Ohio; I hadn't taken him out of the house since the previous August or September--it tends to get too cold in Ohio after that. The fact that he died from a bacterial infection threw me off because I was meticulous about maintaining the cleanliness of his enclosure. Before he died, I had been having trouble maintaining the humidity in his enclosure, so I had changed him to a tub. I told the vet all of this, but he focused on my performing with him. I guess I'll never know for sure, but I am worried that performing added to his stress levels, though he was eating and shedding fairly frequently in the 11 months between his last performance and his death.

I thank you all for your responses, but they do concern me because of those I know who perform with snakes, and of the snake educators I know, like BGSU's Dr. Underwood, with whom I used to take BPs and other reptiles into classrooms to educate children when I was an undergrad way back when. Is this also dangerously stressful for BPs?

I promise I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I truly apologize if I'm coming off that way. I'm just getting a lot of contradictory information about snakes, and I want to be clear and well informed so I can be the best possible pet owner I can be with my next BP.

[JodanOrNoDan]

Comes down to this. Each animal is an individual. Things bother some and not others. Just like all other living things. You will know when something bothers a ball. Heavy breathing is a good indicator. A sudden change in behavior is another. I have four children. The snakes don't mind them. There are two of my snakes that are off limits because of attitude problems. I did not raise them, but they are coming around. Most problems with balls have to do with husbandry issues or infections from outside sources. They are actually very easy animals to keep. Proper handling is not going to stress an animal that is not already having issues.

Also, when looking for advice, try to determine how much experience the one giving the advice has. There are those who like to just repeat things they have heard and may only keep one or two animals. What they say may be true for their animals but it may not be true across a larger population. There are also experienced people that may disagree every now and then, but that is because there is more than one way to skin a cat.

This is what makes this board great. Things can be discussed. I personally have learned a lot here.