switch from mice to rats, can i be this lucky, or no?

[FrankieCarbone]

Vic is my male pastel, who i have owned for little over 5 years, i have tried countless times in year 2-3 to switch his to rats because he is of size, and always the same thing, as soon as he saw that "huge" animal he would run away and hide.

I have since given up hope and realized he is a mouser. I tried it all too, scenting and all that.

Well this summer he has showned to be particularly aggresive when he is hungry, i.e he comes out of his hide S stand and ready, when i pull out the water dish bowl (this is the sign that its feeding time)

It got to the point when im taking out the water dish bowl and by the time i turn my head he he a just staring at the ceiling waiting, i drop the mouse in and he barely hits the ground before he take him.

So i said to mysef, hmmm let me see what will happen now with a rat. Last week, i tried to my my amazed ment, he took him before he even hit the ground.

Today, i drop in another rat, this time it one a bit bigger than the last one, well he hesistates for a little bit and goes back in his hide. I said to myself well, it was nice while it lasted, to my suprise he come back out full steam ahead and catches the rat in a corner, at first i thought the rat was fighting with him cuz i could not see so well and i was ready to go in with the tongs, but i realized it was a catch and wrap.

Is this just pure luck? or did i convert him from mice to rats with no issues at all?

[EL-Ziggy]

Sometimes timing is everything and the hunger almost always wins in the end. I'm glad he took rats for you and hope that he continues to do so with no more issues.

[FrankieCarbone]

Sometimes timing is everything and the hunger almost always wins in the end. I'm glad he took rats for you and hope that he continues to do so with no more issues.

if i would have known that all i had to do was starve him into rats, i would have done this long ago. He prob would have been 300lbs by now

[FrankieCarbone]

oh, and my plan from now on is when hes hungry, to feed him the smalles possible rat i can find, that way he can get used to "rat taste" as supposed to mice. Then once he is taking them on a regular, work my up to giving him the size he should be taking for his weight (1250g)

[EL-Ziggy]

That's a good idea Frankie. Let him get a strong feeding imprint on rats and then increase the prey size. A small rat every 7-10 days sounds about right for your guy.

[dmt_jovi]

Congrats on making the switch

if i would have known that all i had to do was starve him into rats, i would have done this long ago.

That's the reason when you sometimes see discussions here on the forum about switching from mice to rats or from live to f/t, you see some of the OG's saying that sometimes it takes some "tough love" to make the switch.
The problem with "tough love", and the reason why you don't see it recommended as often as the other methods, is because it should be a last resort and you need to be able to properly interpret the snakes behavior in order to properly do it and not just "starve him into rats / f/t", and it takes some knowledge and experience that most new keepers don't have yet

[FrankieCarbone]

well he has taken down 3 rats so far in the last 3 months, has been quiet, until now recently been active and acting like he usually does when he is hungry, tried another rat, he starred at it looked him over, was in s shape, but nothing, that was a week ago, tried again today, same thing, came out was all over the rat but never struck, he just kept staring at him, after a few minutes i decided he wasent gonna go for it, and took the rat out.

Should i keep on with rats? or should i go back to mice? I just feel that if it was a mouse he def would have taking him. But on the other side, when he was a full blown mouser, just the sight of a rat would make him run back in his hide, now he stays out and on the S position the whole time and never backed down, but just never struck. Kind of like he is not scared but maybe just not hungry? (but i know him, he was HUNGRY)

Dont know what to do here, i feel like if i go back to mice i would be going backwards in his progress, but then again i know he is hungry and maybe i should give him a mouse cuz i dont want him starving.

Any advice?

[chrid16371]

What is his weight? Depending on his weight and he can afford to lose a little I would stick with it. This is where the tough love comes in IMO. If he is refusing monitor his weight and if he loses to much then you may have to go with mice. You have gotten this far so there's no reason to turn back now. Make sure you don't leave him alone with a live rat, it only takes a second for something to happen and it's up to you to react quickly. Also make sure the room is dark, a red or blue light comes in handy to feed in the dark so you can see him but it's still dark for him. If you don't have a red or blue light then make the room as dark as possible with you still being able to see whats going on.

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[FrankieCarbone]

I been with him 5+ years so i know how he is, he actually does not care if in watching when it comes to eating. I remove the water bowl, and he knows that means its feeding time and gets ready.

As far as weight (1406g) he is stable. Not loosing weight. Not yet atleast. Once he went on a hunger strike for 6 months and actually kept his weight. And as far as watching him, i already know the law. I dont leave him a second un attended with a hopper much less with a med rat. Im watching the whole time with gloves and tongs.


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[chrid16371]

Do you feed weekly? If so I would go no bigger than a small rat, adults don't need as many calories and nutrients as a young snake so the 10-15% and girth size don't apply anymore.

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