Questions about AP cages and RHPs.

[Twisted_Angel]

Hello everyone! It's me again. Annoying, aren't I?

I have some questions about Animal Plastics Cages.

I am look at a T8 for the ball python, and either a T11 or T12 (help me choose) for the carpet python, with or without basking shelves (again, help me choose). Both will have RHPs. Any tips on what size to get? Or do I need to call them and ask? I want fluorescent fixtures inside. Will they still fit with RHPs installed? Which are more secure - sliding glass, or swing doors? Both would need locks. I am thinking the swing doors since from what I have seen, you HAVE to lock them to close them. Am I off-base here?

My plan with the ball python is to set up the T8 and put the tub inside it, on the cool side, to deal with the ambient temp problems. It will probably look silly, but I think the little one would be totally freaked out in a big enclosure at this size and it seems to be the most efficient permanent resolution.

I have one of those fold up party tables that is 2' X 4' exactly. Would that hold one of these cages? What about both, since I plan to stack them after quarantine? I have read about issues with stacking when using RHPs - they get the bottom of the tub above them too hot. This can apparently be resolved by using 2" spacers... will the stacking pins still work that way, or are they even necessary? What size RHPs should I even get?

I would like to get a good thermostat or two. I will likely need two, since the RHPs for each cage will likely be different due to the height difference. Is there as single thermostat that could run both? What brand/model do you all suggest for this setup? In the past, I have always used different sized tubs with heat mats. I have always put the thermostat probe on the outside of the tub and the thermometer probes stuck to the inside, since I would rather have a minor heart attack than a cooked snake. I take it that isn't advisable with RHPs. How should I go about mounting the thermostat/thermometer probes?

Sorry for all the questions. I want to get everything right.

[Twisted_Angel]

I may also consider the T10 for the carpet if that is really enough height, since it is on sale. The "carpet cage" doesn't have a big enough footprint for my liking, though.

[HanabiraAsashi]

I know nothing about carpet pythons, but what gender are they both? It probably matter since females get much bigger.

I have a young female BP in a 3 ft. long tank, right now im doing exactly what you said, she is in a small tub on the cool side (with its own UTH) because she didnt do well in the full tank. It made total sense because the tank is already temp/humidity controlled, why not put her tub in there. Since most people say they prefer small secure spaces (and her behavior before and after the tub support this), I would say that she maynever outgrow the 36x18x18 tank, especially considering she spends 95% of her time curled up in a hide, and the other 5% is to eat, get water or go to the OTHER hide. I am inclined to believe that 4x2' may be too long for a female BP. At least I hope so, because they dont make exoterras longer than this, and I absolutely love my exoterra tank.

[Sauzo]

I actually just ordered 2 AP T10s a week ago. One for my BP and one for my sunglow boa. I went with sliding glass doors, shelves and locks for both. As for the lighting, I skipped their LEDs as it goes across the whole cage and when I talked to Ali, she told me they are only in a fixed position which is 6" from the back wall. The shelves are 8" wide I believe so I didn't want the lights glaring down on the shelf. I will be mounting RHPs in both of them. I am going to probably go with RBI ones since they have screws to mount them which don't go all the way through the top so I can still stack them. I use a Pro Product RHP in my Proline cage for my other boa and those you have to drill holes and mount them with a nut and bolt. Anyways, I will use 80 watt ones which are more than plenty and mount them lengthwise so I have a 3-4" gap between the shelf and RHP. That way I'm not cooking a spot on the shelf.

The party table should work fine. I use the 6' one for my Proline cage and it works fine and I will use one of the 4' ones to stack the 2 AP cages on.

As for doors, I have heard from a couple people that the swing doors sag over time and you need to give them a little lift when closing to line them up. I prefer the sliding simply because you can use them as shields for excited eaters lol.

As for stacking them, I talked to Ali there too and she told me the line up pins were 1/2" if I remember correctly. She said I could probably use cork furniture pucks if needed. This was mostly for the fact that if I went with Pro Product RHPs, I would have 1/4" thick nuts to have to deal with. That's why I'm just going to use RBI RHPs and stack the cages directly on top of each other. I cant see the RHP heating the floor of the top cage enough to make a difference, especially if you are using 1-2" payer of aspen or other substrate. The RHP will not be running 24/7 anyways with a t-stat.

As for t-stat, I use Herpstats. Get either a Herpstat 2 or 4. I personally just buy the Herpstat 2 because if something goes wrong with it, I will only have to break out 2 of my Hydrofarms to fill in while I get the Herpstat fixed. Using a Herpstat 4 is more cost effective but if one channel of it goes down, you got 4 animals needing Hydrofarms. I mean I guess it doesn't really matter but I just buy Herpstat 2. They have a 10' probe wire so that's plenty as long as the cages are within 10' of each other and for the power, you can just plug an extension cord in between the Herpstat unit and the RHP so the only limiting factor is the 10' probe wire.

As for the BP, just put him in the cage and offer lots of clutter and hides. He will be fine. I had mine is a 40g when I got her at 12" and she was fine. I just gave her 4 hides, a humid hide and a couple paper towel tubes and she was happy as pig in slop.

Oh also forgot, as for lighting, I will just be ordering the LED light bars from RBI. They are thin and mount in with clips/screws do I can mount them behind the front lip so you don't see them and they only need a 1/2" hole for the plug as they are a male/female plug into a ballast unit. The unit can handle 2 lights and i'll just plug that into one of my timers. Figure I'll run the RHP and light wires out the same hole and use cable clamps to secure them down.

[chrid16371]

If the bp is not full grown you will need a divider for the T8 and a 40w rhp from either reptile basics or you can call pro products and they will tell you what to get. You will need an 80w from reptile basics or call pro products if the bp is full grown and no divider for the T8. You don't need to use bolts that go through the cage for pro products rhp, I went to Lowes and bought the appropriate size screws and they didn't go through the cage. With a rhp you may not want a basking shelf bc I bought a T10 from someone new in box and it had the basking shelf and when I mounted it and tested temps the shelf was 100 while my ground was a proper 90, bps don't generally climb anyways so no shelf needed. Idk much about carpet pythons but if you need extra height the T10 extra 3 inches on the T8 does make quite the difference. I would also suggest buying 2 reptile basics hides for the bp, one for hot side and one for cool side. They are dark and secure but they are also thin so the heat from the rhp can penetrate them. If it's a young bp then the medium size is what you want. Don't get anything smaller than the medium, anything smaller is really tiny and a snake would outgrow fast.

As for thermostats your first choice should be the Herpstat 2 from spyder robotics. If that is a little to expensive then a VE-300 x2 from reptile basics. Both of these thermostats will let you power 2 different heating devices with there own settings.

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[chrid16371]

I will add sliding glass doors would be the best option IMO. My T10 came with swing doors and I just really don't like them that much. I really like sliding glass doors like on my vision cages, plus with sliding glass you can crack it just enough to get a rodent in but with swing doors the snake could come bursting through if it is not latched. You don't need a lock with swing bc they have little swivels around the doors that will hold the door but whatever style door you choose I highly recommend a lock. You can buy a divider so you don't have to put the tub inside the cage, that way it will only have half the cage and you can move the divider little by little as it grow. Like I said in my above post 40w reptile basics rhp if using a divider, 80w with no divider or you can contact pro products. Depending on your room temp the 80w may work with the T11 or T12 as well and if you need a divider for that as well then the 40w may still work. I will say pro products rhp is more expensive then reptile basics but they have tons more options for every kind of cage and room temp, you can't see there products online you have to email or call then and explain the setup. The way I mount my thermostat probe is setting it on the hot side ground right under rhp and setting it to 90, some people do not recommend this bc the snake could poop on it or something but I have not had one problem yet. Another way of mounting it is to hang it down under the rhp and set thermostat a little higher until you get the correct hot spot temp. I put my thermometer probe inside the hot hide so I know the temp of the hot hide. I use acurite 00891 so I can put probe inside hot hide on top of substrate and then bury the wire under the substare and run it to cool side and set the whole thermometer unit on the cool side and it gives me the cool side temp and humidity as well.

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[Sauzo]

While it's true, you don't have to use bolts with the Pro Product one, I wouldn't want to just use wood screws or something like that. Its not exactly light as its an aluminum body unit. The RBI ones can get away with it since they are ABS body and a lot lighter. But to each their own. And you don't need a divider for a 4' cage for a sub adult BP. In the wild, they don't live in a 2x2 section of termite mound or a rodent den. The key is to clutter up the cage enough with stuff to make them feel secure. That means more than just 2 or 3 hides with nothing else. Sure, in that case they probably wont be happy as traveling from hide to hide will be what will scare them as it exposes them. Now throw in a few hides, some silk vines from a craft store like Michaels and maybe a couple paper towel rolls and he will feel a lot safer traveling between hides. I've started lots of snakes in big cages and never had a problem as long as you give them cover for the whole cage, not just a few hides.

Some BPs will climb. Mine loves to climb all over and will actually perch on top of her PVC toy/tree thing I built her. A few other people I've talked to about my BP liking to climb have also told me theirs likes to climb all over as well. its kind of like people saying boas are terrestrial...well yes kind of but if you give a boa a branch, shelf or perch, they will make use of it. Now it's up to you OP if you want to get a shelf but for $30, its worth it to give them the option imo. Just remember when you mount the RHP, don't mount it over top of the shelf or you will run into the problem Chrid is having.

Also for the RHP, if you call Pro Products and talk to Bob, he will probably set you up with the PH3 65 watt one as that seems to be the go to one for 4x2 cages in a mid 70s room. Or get the 80 watt one from RBI. It really wont matter as the T-stat will be controlling it. Just remember, a RHP is not going to work like heat tape and heat a single spot on the floor unless you put something down like a piece of flat slate or something it can heat under it. They are designed to heat an object under them which in turn gives off heat to heat the air.

The way I set my RHP and t-stat is I put the probe on the cool side about 2" above the substrate and then set that to 80F. That gives me around an 86F or so warm side. This is the way Bob at Pro Products says to set it up too. Some people will set the probe under the RHP about halfway down and set the hot side. Problem I see with that is the cool side can become too warm and then your snake has no where to go to cool down. Bottom line is you will know when its set right when the snake thermo regulates. If it is on the cool side all the time, you need to lower your temp. On the hot side all the time, need to raise your temp. I would just avoid setting it on the floor because if the snake pisses on it, it could destroy the probe and then you will need to get a new one not to mention it could give false readings. This is for the BP. For the carpet, I would definitely get a shelf and me personally, I would go for something higher like a T12.

[chrid16371]

While it's true, you don't have to use bolts with the Pro Product one, I wouldn't want to just use wood screws or something like that. Its not exactly light as its an aluminum body unit. The RBI ones can get away with it since they are ABS body and a lot lighter. But to each their own.

They screw I use for my pro products radiant heat panel are not just wood screw they are specialty screws from Lowes. My 88w ph-12 pro products rhp is way lighter then my 160w reptile basics and only 3lbs heavier then my 40w reptile basics rhp (according to shipping information from FedEx) so if screws will hold the 160w they will definitely hold the smaller pro products one.

Also there is really not a way to mount a rhp without at least some of it hitting the basking shelf. Your suppose to mount at least 6 inches from any wall so if you mount it toward the front of the cage then you are not out of the 6 inch range and void warranty. Yes you can mount it that way but if something goes wrong then you are not covered under warranty.


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[DennisM]

I keep adult carpets in T10 and they do just fine. Nonetheless, this doesn't seem to be popular with other morelia keepers on this forum as most keepers seem to prefer the additional height.

[LittleTreeGuy]

Hello everyone! It's me again. Annoying, aren't I?

I have some questions about Animal Plastics Cages.

I am look at a T8 for the ball python, and either a T11 or T12 (help me choose) for the carpet python, with or without basking shelves (again, help me choose). Both will have RHPs. Any tips on what size to get? Or do I need to call them and ask? I want fluorescent fixtures inside. Will they still fit with RHPs installed? Which are more secure - sliding glass, or swing doors? Both would need locks. I am thinking the swing doors since from what I have seen, you HAVE to lock them to close them. Am I off-base here? When I got my T8, my bp was about 5 months old, I think. I chose to get the divider as it was easy, and allowed me to change the size of the area my snake could live in. It was $20, but I liked it and chose to do it. It just fits snugly in place, so as the snake grows, you can move it. Now, having done this, I did have to go with two 40w RHP's, as one 80w would not allow the divider to fit in the center of the cage as I wanted it to. I also chose to get the white LED's from AP. I really like them. They light up the enclosure very well and don't affect my heating at all. They're bright and I don't have to worry about changing out the bulbs. They are available, but not on the website yet, I don't believe. The sliding glass doors are pretty heavy. I don't any snake would open them. I got the lock just as an extra level of security for my own piece of mind. Not for the snake trying to escape, but having visitors or children at my house and getting curious. The divider will not work with the basking shelf. I think if you have limbs and stuff in the enclosure, the basking shelf isn't really needed. Just my opinion though.

My plan with the ball python is to set up the T8 and put the tub inside it, on the cool side, to deal with the ambient temp problems. It will probably look silly, but I think the little one would be totally freaked out in a big enclosure at this size and it seems to be the most efficient permanent resolution. I would get the divider and not worry about the tub.

I have one of those fold up party tables that is 2' X 4' exactly. Would that hold one of these cages? What about both, since I plan to stack them after quarantine? I have read about issues with stacking when using RHPs - they get the bottom of the tub above them too hot. This can apparently be resolved by using 2" spacers... will the stacking pins still work that way, or are they even necessary? What size RHPs should I even get? That table should be okay. The T8's aren't really that heavy. I think you'll be fine to stack them. I wouldn't worry about any sort of spacers unless you were using UTH's of some kind. Then some air circulation would be good. If you have an RHP in the bottom cage, stacking is fine, and it will provide a little warmth for the cage on top. I currently have a bearded dragon setup on top of my T8 and it does help a little.

I would like to get a good thermostat or two. I will likely need two, since the RHPs for each cage will likely be different due to the height difference. Is there as single thermostat that could run both? What brand/model do you all suggest for this setup? In the past, I have always used different sized tubs with heat mats. I have always put the thermostat probe on the outside of the tub and the thermometer probes stuck to the inside, since I would rather have a minor heart attack than a cooked snake. I take it that isn't advisable with RHPs. How should I go about mounting the thermostat/thermometer probes? As others have said, I vote Herpstat. I got a cheapo thermostat starting out and never felt "confident" that it was doing what it should... I then upgraded to a Herpstat 2, and have not worried a day. they're pretty awesome.

Sorry for all the questions. I want to get everything right.