Scaleless

[WildLore]

honestly there is so little out there...like lack of video, lack of documentation and didn't one of the first 2 die? the female? which i think also scares people...

you can see BHB's scaleless here in probably the only footage i've seen of it after the first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVN6IIfMxfk

and thought this was interesting and relevant http://www.whsreptiles.com/whs-line-...eads-are-here/


post with pichttps://www.facebook.com/SnakeBytesT...2613604110507/

[DennisM]

The banana was unique because of the male makers. It was so easy to produce males and breed them to multiple females, the market got flooded with males pretty quickly. I think the scaleless heads price fall has more to do with the concern over the fully scaleless animals. The rumors were flying and the price fell. I think if the original scaleless animals thrived and we could see them in photos and videos the price wouldn't be where it is now.

True on both points. So maybe bamboo would be a better recent example of what happens to prices in the co-dom market. Of course if it's true that there are problems with homozygous scaleless, that's a different story.

[voodoolamb]

I cant help but think something is rotten in scaleless town. 3 out of 4 known scaleless balls died prematurely. The dermaball, the scaleless one from Ophiological Services died, one of BHB's scaleless... plus no other news about anymore being produced???

Only time will tell but I am banking on "failure to thrive" issues with them.

I mean a hope not, I think they are just too stinkin' cute for words!

[WildLore]

I cant help but think something is rotten in scaleless town. 3 out of 4 known scaleless balls died prematurely. The dermaball, the scaleless one from Ophiological Services died, one of BHB's scaleless... plus no other news about anymore being produced???

Only time will tell but I am banking on "failure to thrive" issues with them.

I mean a hope not, I think they are just too stinkin' cute for words!

voodoo one of the links i posted, WH ? i believe has produced some that have lived he seems to equate it to the variation level of the piebald gene of course his version of scaleless may be different but he believes under normal circumstances it should produce varying levels of scaleless he says he has one for sale might be something to ask him questions about if the OP is still even mildly interested

[fLako0aGuiiLaR]

I think the micro scales from NERD are a interesting gene because of the missing pits!

[Dave Green]

voodoo one of the links i posted, WH ? i believe has produced some that have lived he seems to equate it to the variation level of the piebald gene of course his version of scaleless may be different but he believes under normal circumstances it should produce varying levels of scaleless he says he has one for sale might be something to ask him questions about if the OP is still even mildly interested

That's Winston Smith, he has produced scaleless heads but not scaleless animals (supers) yet. He does have at least one gravid female from scaleless head x scaleless head so we may see some scaleless soon. By the way, Winston is one of the best guys out there.

[voodoolamb]

voodoo one of the links i posted, WH ? i believe has produced some that have lived he seems to equate it to the variation level of the piebald gene of course his version of scaleless may be different but he believes under normal circumstances it should produce varying levels of scaleless he says he has one for sale might be something to ask him questions about if the OP is still even mildly interested

The WHS site looked like it only referee to Heterozygous animals. Scaleless Heads.

From their site:

There are two known lines of Scaleless Heads, the BHB line that Mike Wilbanks and Brian Barczyk are currently working with which proved last year to produce a healthy scaleless animal when the gene is in its homozygous form, and the WHS line which at the moment has only been produced in its heterozygous form that is phenotypically IDENTICAL with the BHB line.

My concerns are issues with the supers. I've only found 4 reports of full scaleless balls online. And 3 of them perished at a young age.

Lots of genes across the animal world are safe in the singular but devastating when in the homozygous form. I'm wondering if that is the case with scaleless in regards to ball pythons? We probably won't know for years, 4 snakes is hardly an appropriate sample size. But maybe enough to give pause?

What I am really curious about is BHB. They had to have paired their Scaleless heads together since their first 2 hatched scalelesses. Brian B. Was way too excited not to have. Have they not produced anymore? Or if they have are they keeping it under wraps? If it's the later, why?

I just don't know.

[MarkS]

Many years ago I knew a guy who was keeping scaleless water snakes and he had nothing but problems with them. They always had bad sheds and kept loosing bits of their tails to necrosis. I would think the humidity requirements for a completely scaleless ball would be very high.

[enginee837]

Many years ago I knew a guy who was keeping scaleless water snakes and he had nothing but problems with them. They always had bad sheds and kept loosing bits of their tails to necrosis. I would think the humidity requirements for a completely scaleless ball would be very high.

I would guess taking a cold blooded creature and depriving it of it'so main form of protection and insulation would mean everything we know about husbandry would go out the window. But I am not a scientist so that is just a guess on my part.

[enginee837]

I would guess taking a cold blooded creature and depriving it of it'so main form of protection and insulation would mean everything we know about husbandry would go out the window. But I am not a scientist so that is just a guess on my part.

I also can't help but wonder the kind of sensory overload they may experience. If they still have the nerve endings without the scales, that must be like having your fingernails removed but all over your body.
Granted we will never be able to ask one but if they are failing to thrive there must be a reason.