BP Food Size and UVB Lighting

[blubudgie]

So I was listening to some exotic animal vets talk about reptile care and I learned some new things. I just wanted to know what you guys thought.

The first thing was food size. The vet said that food size should be around the diameter of a snake's head. I know this is true for chameleons and probably other lizards, but I've always read and fed my snake food that is the size of the fattest part of his body. If I fed the diameter of his head I'd probably have to go back to rat pinkies, it's a very big size difference. So I'm wondering, which is correct?

The second was UVB lighting. The vets agreed that nocturnal reptiles don't necessarily require UVB, but they said that studies have shown they definitely benefit from it. I've decided to hang a UVB bulb above my BP's cage. What do you guys think, just curious.

[djstarfall]

From what I've gathered from the webs,
Food size: fattest part of body, or 10-15% of body weight
Lighting: not necessary as BPs do not typically bask in the sun during the day. However, uvb "aids with bone formation (or something like that)".



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[PitOnTheProwl]

The correct answer would be to find a new vet.
Food the size of their head? That vet is an idiot.........SMH

No larger than body diameter is a good food size.
UV is not needed.

[Sauzo]

UVB helps the reptile synthesize D3 which is used to help the body absorb calcium. Now there is the whole argument of how much D3 is absorbed when fed calcium with added D3 but that's a whole nother subject. Sure UVB light wont hurt a reptile unless you are using something crazy like a T5 HO at 4" and will be beneficial but since BPs pretty much never come out in the day, not sure how much it will help. My boas are out pretty much all the time so for them, a 5.0 UVB tube wouldn't hurt but I don't use them. I just take everyone out for about 15-30 mins of sun every couple days in the summer time.

As for food size, about the thickness of the thickest part of the snake give or take a little. Certain snakes are more tolerant than others. Pythons can eat huge food. BCIs can take pretty large foods. BCCs go smaller on as they are more prone to regurgitate if too large. Boas are more rigid so I wouldn't go too much larger than their thickness. Pythons, I've fed Dottie rats that made her look like she ate a football as a baby and she literally waddled into her hide and sat in there for like 3 days and then was back out ready for round 2 lol.

[Coluber42]

Meals only as big around as the head? That's crazy. Look at the body proportions of an adult ball python

[Coluber42]

Hit reply too soon!
Meals only as big around as the head? That's crazy. Look at the body proportions of an adult ball python, their heads are much smaller than their middle SD. By that metric, adult bp's would eat nothing larger than mice, which is clearly not the case either on captivity or in the wild. Those feral burms in Florida sometimes easy alligators; wild retics and African rock pythons can eat deer. They certainly don't stop at food the size of their head. Pythons have a whole bunch of amazing adaptations that allow them to swallow large meals, like being able to unhinge their jaws, stretchy necks, being able to stick their windpipe out like a snorkel so they can still breathe while they do it, etc. It's what they're buit for.

As for uvb, it's all well and good, but it can't possibly do much for an animal that will at most be exposed to it for the time it takes to slither from one dark hole to another. I would get a new vet!

Edit: there are other snake species that are out and about during the day and also eat smaller food... Could it be that they were talking about one of those?

[blubudgie]

UVB helps the reptile synthesize D3 which is used to help the body absorb calcium. Now there is the whole argument of how much D3 is absorbed when fed calcium with added D3 but that's a whole nother subject. Sure UVB light wont hurt a reptile unless you are using something crazy like a T5 HO at 4" and will be beneficial but since BPs pretty much never come out in the day, not sure how much it will help. My boas are out pretty much all the time so for them, a 5.0 UVB tube wouldn't hurt but I don't use them. I just take everyone out for about 15-30 mins of sun every couple days in the summer time.

As for food size, about the thickness of the thickest part of the snake give or take a little. Certain snakes are more tolerant than others. Pythons can eat huge food. BCIs can take pretty large foods. BCCs go smaller on as they are more prone to regurgitate if too large. Boas are more rigid so I wouldn't go too much larger than their thickness. Pythons, I've fed Dottie rats that made her look like she ate a football as a baby and she literally waddled into her hide and sat in there for like 3 days and then was back out ready for round 2 lol.

Yep! She talked about how UVB helps convert inactive VitD3 into usable Vit D3. The vets were also talking about supplementing Vit. D3 with those calcium+D3 powders and they said there wasn't a need, pure calcium is the only thing needed. Vit. D3 is present in animal skin so for snakes at least they're getting it from their whole prey.
I think what they were mainly trying to emphasize was that nocturnal reptiles can get along fine without the UVB light, but having the UVB is beneficial.

I don't think I'll be changing my snake's food size sinces he eems to be capable of swallowing the weanling rats. One of the vets seemed to be pretty set on the whole diameter of the head rule. The other one was more ok with feeding the bigger foods.

The correct answer would be to find a new vet.
Food the size of their head? That vet is an idiot.........SMH

No larger than body diameter is a good food size.
UV is not needed.

Actually they're from a really well known exotic animal hospital. Which was why I was surprised when the vet talked about the feeding size.

@Coluber42 : I think they were talking about all snakes in general? Probably more focused on ball pythons or boas since those are the one's people usually keep as pets.

[Reinz]

Sounds like one of those Vets spend more time studying arts and crafts than Anatomy and Physiology.

[blubudgie]

Okay I don't want this thread to just be people bashing the vets, lol. They're actually really great, caring, and knowledgeable people. I'm thinking that food size recommendation was a way to prevent owners from giving food too big. Or maybe she just didn't know as much about snakes as the other vet.

[MandMac]

I have to think that the vets were talking about certain species of snakes and not all snakes. Boas and pythons have a skin fold or flap on the underside of their jaw which, along with the ability to running their jaws, allows them to eat prey larger than the size of their head. (Sorry for any misuse of terms) If we were to feed our balls prey no larger than their heads, then I think we would be permanently starving them. Since I've been hearing a lot about obesity in reptiles, perhaps the vets are recommending underfeeding intentionally?

So far as uvb lights go, I think it's obviously not a necessity. However, I have heard other people saying that they do benefit from it. I haven't seen any scientific evidence for this, but I have seen images of ball pythons hanging out under uvb lights, and I found an old book titled Snakes of Africa in which the author noted that royals could occasionally be found basking.