*Room Temperature and Enclosure Temperature (What are the Limits for the Room?)

[HellsAekel]

Hi all,

I am a total noob in need of help. I am a 6th grade math and science teacher and I will be welcoming a new snake (my first) into my class in 3 weeks. I have done a lot of research but am running into some questions which I must answer before I can confidently take on the responsibility of a ball python.

Here is my problem-

I currently do not know how cold my room gets at night when the the heating is shut off in the school. I will be having students keep a temperature log (I will as well) of the room temperature throughout the day. I will also record the temperature in the room early in the morning, and once or twice at night. We will do this for two weeks, but I am left with the questions:

What temperature range must the room outside of the enclosure stay such that it is possible to keep the needed temperature gradient inside of the enclosure?

This question was raised when I visited a reptile specialist pet store today (a very reputable one out here in temperate climate San Francisco) and a women said that it is not enough to ensure that I have a high wattage heat lamp connected to an accurate thermostat. She said that while it will be able to heat the entire tank (I am open to wood, plastic, glass or melamine) even in a cold room, it would heat up so quickly that the thermostat will quickly shut it off and it will not be possible to maintain the correct temperature.

I will be buying and adult that I know to be very tame and used to handling. As such this will be for an enclosure that can comfortably accommodate a full grown adult of 3-5 feet.

As I mentioned, I have done quite a bit of research and understand that I will need to do a lot of work to responsibly care for this animal. I am willing to step up. However, the first step of course is to make sure that I actually can in my circumstances.

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated!

[HellsAekel]

I should also add that I have received a grant of $120 and raised another $410 personally which I can invest in the snake and all the things it will need.

It is also worth mentioning that a parent offered to donate two tanks which may be able to accommodate an adult python. I have yet to see them but if they work this might free up more money for equipment which could possibly allow me to keep a ball python comfortable in the fluctuating temperatures of my classroom.

[CloudtheBoa]

I would say it would have to stay constantly in the 75-80F range, but depends on how well your enclosure holds in heat and what you're using to provide the hot spot. My PVC cages can hold heat below 75F, but my big 3' tall wooden enclosure needs a room temp of at least 85F to maintain floor temps. I want to find someone to help me split it into 2 levels so the floor temps aren't so important and then maybe that will change.

Pulse-proportional thermostats will allow you a constant flow of heat, without it turning off unless it's simply too hot. These thermostats control the amount of electricity going to the heat source at any given time, instead of waiting for the temps to get to the set highs and turning back on at the set lows. Herpstats and Vivarium Electronics have models that have pulse-proportional settings, and will cost you $100-400 depending on model, but for only one heat source you should be able to keep it around or under $200. As far as non-reptile specific thermostats I'm not sure if you could get a reliable pulse-proportional for cheaper, maybe someone else can chime in on that.

[Sauzo]

Well it really depends on the cage material. Glass tanks are very bad insulators. My advice is to get a PVC cage like an Animal Plastics T8. They would be plenty for any size BP and will hold in heat well. I would then go for a radiant heat panel from Reptile Basics. Without knowing your state or how cold your area gets, I would say get an 80 watt one just incase. Then I would get a Herpstat 1 T-stat. Vivarium Electronics are good too but Herpstats have more options and offer both a pulse proportional mode as well as a dimming poroportional mode. All VEs are pulse proportional only except I think the VE200D which the D stands for dimming model. Anyways all that should be a little under the funds you got. Then you can use the left over cash to get a water bowl, hides etc. I also advise get Reptile Basic hides. The large size should be fine. I use 2 for my 4' pied girl and she fits in them perfect. With a set up like that, unless your school gets freezing, you should be fine. An 80 watt RHP will keep a T8 plenty heated. Also a tip for heating is go to any hardware store and buy the 1/2-1" 8x4 sheet insulation(called R-type) up here. Its used for wall insulation or attics, not the fiberglass blown in stuff. Anyways cut that to fit and put that between the cage and the table. That will reduce a lot of heat loss in the winter if your room is kept cool.

[LittleTreeGuy]

I will second the Animal Plastics T8 cage. They are of great quality, and you can't really find anything bad said about them. They maintain humidity levels very well and are fairly light if ever needed to be moved. Once assembled, they are 4' long, 2' deep, and 12" tall. If you are starting out with a young or hatchling ball python, you should definitely get the divider they offer on their site (or just tell Ali if you call to order). It will allow you to divide the tank in half (or even smaller). Younger snakes may get stressed out in a very large open area. Putting more hides, fake plants, etc in the tank can be a good thing.

RHP's (radiant heat panels) are an excellent source for good heat. Some folks now use them exclusively with no belly heat. In a T8 style cage, they can heat the entire closure and provide enough ground heat that you don't need any under the tank heat source. If you do plan to get a young snake, and use the divider, you'll be better to get two 40w heat panels, so you can still use the divider. Or if going that route, get one 40w panel now, and get the other later when the snake is big enough that you can remove the divider (maybe a year to two years old). Reptile Basics does offer some very nice hides. I use them myself. One thing though, again, if starting with a young snake, get the smaller hides, and work your way up. Ball Pythons like to feel their hides touching them. They like the security of feeling the enclosure against their body. The more cramped they look to use, the happier they are. Starting off with a large hide for a young bp may not give it the security it needs.

In regards to room temperature, if you're in San Fran, I'm guessing it's not going to get too cold at night. You can pick up some digital Accurite thermometers/hygrometer combos at Walmart for about $12. Get at least two, one for the warm side and one for the cool side of your tank. If you invest in those now, you can just set them in your classroom, and they will record the coldest and warmest temps. That will give you an idea for how cold the room gets at any given point.

[AKA Dave]

Just out of curiosity, where are you located?

Dave

[Pug50]

My BP lives in my home and I'm quite frugal with my heating - in the daytime it's heated to 62F and since I got my snake I've programmed the heating to never allow temps to drop below 52F at night and when I'm out of the house.

I have a wooden 3x2x2ft glass fronted enclosure with just a 75w radiant heat panel over the hot side. It needed pillows and a duvet/comforter wrapped around the sides and tops to maintain a 90F hot spot and 77-80F cold end in 53F room temperature (my pulse-proportional t/stat runs at 50-80%). I'd never open the enclosure or handle my snake until the room is heated up though...


With regards to your situation - I have a feeling a classroom might be a scary situation for a BP; you should count on keeping the enclosure covered with an opaque sheet most of the time and have it in an out-of-the-way area.

Also - a healthy BP will tend to sleep/hide all day, and from what I hear they are best fed at night. Are there any other less-nocturnal species that you are considering?

[Pug50]

I guess I should add - my hot spot/hide is on a basking table which is about 1ft off the bottom of my enclosure on the hot end; I'm not sure I'd be able to get the floor of the enclosure to ~90F with just my RHP.

[LittleTreeGuy]

My BP lives in my home and I'm quite frugal with my heating - in the daytime it's heated to 62F and since I got my snake I've programmed the heating to never allow temps to drop below 52F at night and when I'm out of the house.

I have a wooden 3x2x2ft glass fronted enclosure with just a 75w radiant heat panel over the hot side. It needed pillows and a duvet/comforter wrapped around the sides and tops to maintain a 90F hot spot and 77-80F cold end in 53F room temperature (my pulse-proportional t/stat runs at 50-80%). I'd never open the enclosure or handle my snake until the room is heated up though...


With regards to your situation - I have a feeling a classroom might be a scary situation for a BP; you should count on keeping the enclosure covered with an opaque sheet most of the time and have it in an out-of-the-way area.

Also - a healthy BP will tend to sleep/hide all day, and from what I hear they are best fed at night. Are there any other less-nocturnal species that you are considering?

I wouldn't expect a classroom temperature being able to drop that low. They wouldn't be able to get it warm enough for the students in the morning if dropped that low. Most schools I've ever been in, some very old, are probably in the 63-65F area. Maybe a tad lower during winter months. Being that your cage is 2' high, the RHP has to work extra hard to heat the lower portion of that cage. In a pvc enclosure, 80w of RHP is more than plenty to keep the entire thing warm if the ambient temps are 65 degrees.

[PitOnTheProwl]

I don't know if I missed an answer to this question.
Where and what school are you in?
I ask this because it sounds like you may still have a little time AND IF the school has a wood shop you may be able to get them to build you an enclosure? That would make it even more interesting for other students.

With the night drops unknown I would go the way of a RHP. You can get with the guys at Reptile Basics but you would need to know what you are going to use for an enclosure.
I am one to always recommend a rack BUT knowing that children don't always close things the way they should I wouldn't chance it LoL