Question from a worried BP Owner || Permanent stunting?

[bangarain]

Hello there. I'm absolutely terrified to post, but it says in the header it's friendly, so, here goes. I'm worried sick about my baby.

A few months ago I brought home my first ball python, a little pastel named Ezekiel. I was told at the time of purchase he was six months old, but it's become clear to me that from his size, that wasn't the case. (Not blaming the breeder, probably just a mix up or misunderstanding). He was eating hoppers when sold, I was told.

Zeke wouldn't take food. We tried everything we knew to do, including live, but I was told not to worry about it, he would start eating again and be fine. (Bad advice since he was just a baby, as I have come to realize.) Fast forward two months of not eating, and he was unbearably tiny, (I don't even want to say how many grams) and I began to assist feed. (I still regret not doing it sooner). He's begun to gain weight, but he is still agonizingly small...just about 150 grams or so.

He's about the size of a 3 month old, and is at least 5 months..if he was 6 months old when I got him I don't even know what to do. He's being fed every 5 days on medium mice (20g each), and I plan to move up to rat pups soon.

I am planning on taking him to a vet to make sure there's nothing going on that could have contributed to this. He's shown no signs of sickness that I've seen, no mites, and has had a few good sheds now, otherwise looks healthy, but it's just he's so unbearably small.

I feel sick about how tiny he is and am horribly guilty for not assisting sooner and I am afraid he won't catch up.
Is there any chance that this has permanently stunted his growth? Is there anything I can do to help him?

[Caspian]

Some people 'maintenance' feed young snakes, to my understanding, to keep them small until they sell. I have a 2014 pastel pied male that arrived last month at 165g. I have a CH boy I got at the same time who's only 106g, who arrived at 81g. Age doesn't really have anything to do with size, to my understanding. Some grow fast, some grow slow - They all get bigger eventually. This month, that pastel pied boy is 264g. One gained 20g, the other gained 100g in the same amount of time - each at their own speed. As long as everything else is right, I personally wouldn't worry about your boy, and just keep him on a regular feeding schedule. A vet visit certainly wouldn't do any harm, though, if you have a good reptile vet in the area!

Disclaimer - I'm no expert. Just recounting my own personal experience. I'm a new BP owner, as well.

[JoshSloane]

Hey there, thanks for coming to the forum for help. Ball pythons are known for being very finicky eaters. Without having more information from the breeder, it is really hard to know the reasons why the snake is having such a hard time eating. He could have been very stressed at a young age, had inadequate care, or just could have been a poor feeder to begin with, and maybe shouldn't have even been sold in the first place. Either way, it is great that he is gaining weight. Assist feeding is tough on them, so you might try offering food in alternate ways to see if he can take it. Maybe one day his feeding response will become jump started, and you wont have to assist.

To answer your question, no this period of slow eating will not permanently stunt his growth. Reptiles have adapted physiologic mechanisms to be able to cope with long periods of no food sources. I truly doubt that this issue will result in long term consequences to the snake's growth. I personally had a baby boa years ago that was a problem feeder, and was completely healthy. One day around her first birthday, she suddenly became a ravenous feeder, and now is my biggest boa I have in my collection. Bob Clark (renowned Python breeder) tells a story about how he acquired a very malnourished Burmese python that was around 4 years old, and only about 1/4 the size of what it should have been. With regular feedings the snake ballooned in size and reached its full potential eventually.

With regards to veterinary care, unless the snake is showing any visible signs or symptoms of illness, there really isn't anything a vet can do for you with just a basic examination. Other than a lung wash, which can potentially indicate the presence of an upper respiratory disease, and is very stressful for the snake, and expensive for you, there aren't many other veterinary tools that can be used to discover why the snake isn't eating well.

If the snake is shedding, gaining weight and defecating I would say stay the course and in a few months from now it might be a whole different story.

[bangarain]

Thank you both very much for your responses...I've been worried sick about him, I've seen so many younger than him that are already massive and he is just this tiny little bean. I've been worried sick trying to figure out what I've been doing wrong, and I guess I was scared he'd stay this small forever and...yeah. But it is really awesome to know that chances are it won't adversely affect him in the long run. I guess I'll keep doing what I'm doing and checking how much he's gaining and keep on keeping on. Thank you very much!

Even though he's an absolutely terrible feeder and a little pain in that area, I'm so glad I ended up with him, anxiety and constant worrying and all. With all he's been through he's never once bitten and he is the sweetest little guy I know. He tolerates all of my anxiety-induced shenanigans.

This is him.

[JoshSloane]

He's a good looking little guy. Keep up the good work. Sometimes the pets that give us the most problems and issues turn out to be the best in the end.

[DennisM]

I don't think there's anything to worry about here. It sounds like he's feeding regularly now. Some just start slow.

[bcr229]

I don't think there's anything to worry about here. It sounds like he's feeding regularly now. Some just start slow.

My impression of the OP is that this baby is still being assist fed. If I'm wrong and he's now eating on his own then he'll make up for lost time soon enough.
Otherwise, while ball pythons can be picky that's normally true for older animals; unless there is something wrong with their environment or they are stressed babies typically eat. So, before going to the vet, a few questions:

- What kind of setup is he in (tank, tub, PVC enclosure)? Does it have hides for your baby to get under to feel secure?
- What are the hot side temperature and cool side temperature? What kind of thermometer are you using to measure them?
- What kind of thermostats are you using to regulate the heat sources?
- What is the humidity in the enclosure and what type of hygrometer are you using to measure it?

[bangarain]

He was starting to eat on his own for a few weeks (I was so proud) then went off again so he's been assist fed once or so since then? Since he's still so small I don't want to risk him losing weight again since he seems to very quickly. Hopefully though I won't have to anymore, he's been showing more interest.

He is in a glass tank with a mesh top, covered 2/3 of the way with a towel to hold in humidity. It's very large for him (a 30gal long) but cluttered with a dozen or so hides and tunnels with plenty of hiding space, fake plants and sphagnum moss, and very little open floor area. He mostly uses his cork roll, but I've found him in each of them and he's rarely out except for a short period at night, usually on feeding day.
(I had moved him into a smaller tank for a few weeks but it made no difference to his eating - but I am definitely willing to try again if you guys think it's necessary. I've gone back and forth because I've read that larger tanks are ok as long as they have plenty of clutter, but then I've read differently as well, that they need small space so I'm just not sure which is correct. I'm really sorry if this is a newbish mistake.) I was looking into buying a 10gal for him until he gets bigger -- do you think I should? He seemed to be improving and was eating somewhat reliably so I was wavering there.

I have two digital thermometers on either side and a heat gun I use as well. Hot side is 85-87, ambient and cool are 77. Humidity is at 55%, digital hygrometer used to measure that, and when he sheds I'll mist to get it up to 60-70 or so. He's on a mixture of coconut husk and cypress mulch substrate wise.

I have a uth regulated with a jumpstart thermostat, and a che with a dimmer switch heatwise.

[DennisM]

My impression of the OP is that this baby is still being assist fed. If I'm wrong and he's now eating on his own then he'll make up for lost time soon enough.
Otherwise, while ball pythons can be picky that's normally true for older animals; unless there is something wrong with their environment or they are stressed babies typically eat. So, before going to the vet, a few questions:

- What kind of setup is he in (tank, tub, PVC enclosure)? Does it have hides for your baby to get under to feel secure?
- What are the hot side temperature and cool side temperature? What kind of thermometer are you using to measure them?
- What kind of thermostats are you using to regulate the heat sources?
- What is the humidity in the enclosure and what type of hygrometer are you using to measure it?

Oops, reading comprehension issues again. Then of course there is something worry about. My apologies

[bangarain]

Just wanted to update: today was feeding day and he struck instantly with zero hesitation!! I'm so proud of him.