Ressesive gender

[Morke]

So, I was thinking, if you were to start a ressesive morph plan, and you could only get 1 homozygous animal, what gender would be the best if your final objetive is to get a double gene animal, for example, Pastel Clown?

[Chkadii]

I would go clown female, pastel het. clown male. Recessive girls are very slow to lose their value, and as time goes on you could swap out the male for a multi-gene het. (or replace him with a pastel visual clown son.)

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[PitOnTheProwl]

Female here as well.
You can produce your own het male to breed back.
Works out better if you are trying for a 2 gene animal.

[Eric Alan]

Exactly. With visual recessive females, you're guaranteed to at minimum produce 100% het offspring.

[mdb730]

I would go recessive female almost on all occasions for the same exact reason everyone one else has mentioned. Only way I would ever go with a recessive male first is if I purchased something rare like a sunset, I would breed it as soon as possible to 3 or 4 females and make as many 100% het sunsets as I can.

[bks2100]

I was wondering this same thing since I wanted to get some clowns. I figured I was looking at ~400 for a male and like 600 for a female, so I ended up with hets so I had a better chance and it'll always be nice to have het clown females.

But your main question was male or female homozygous, and while everyone else is saying go for female, I would say go for male (for the reason mdb730 said). I'm not sure why female would be better other than they hold their value better, which is true but I don't think is really that important. I looked at the two options and tried to guess what would be my quickest route to making my own visuals. Let's say you're starting with plain clowns and trying to get pastels:

Clown female you would get and raise up 2 years (assuming she eats well and is ready), pair with pastel male (I'd personally round up more money to get more genes in the male and try to make as many nice hets as possible with as few normal hets). So first clutch is half pastel het clown, half het clown. Hopefully you'd get a pastel het clown male to pair back to his mom the next year, (assuming she eats well and is at least back up to her old breeding weight) and then you'll get half the clutch clowns with half of those being pastel. So a 1/4 chance at a pastel clown about 3 years (pretty optimistic timeline).

Now a clown male, I'd raise him up (assuming he eats well enough and would be ready in a year) and pair with multiple females (assuming you have them already). I'd make as many nice het clowns as I could and keep the best females. Raise them up (2 years) and put their dad with them to make a bunch of different clowns at the same chance as above.

To me the male is the better choice, it's easier to get a male up to size and breeding than it is to get a female up to size and hope that she ovulates. Worst case scenario for the male is he isn't interested in females, which you can pair him with more females or put another male's shed in with them, or if you have a smaller male you can put him in with that one to get him more interested. Of course it's not guaranteed, but you have more options and more likelyhood of sucess. But with the female, you could pair her and see locks every single time and she still might not ovulate, or she does ovulate and slugs out or only has 1-2 good eggs. With the female you're looking at 2 seasons to get 2 clutches where the last clutch is the only one that might have clowns. But with the male you'd be looking at 2 seasons to get multiple clutches that can have clowns (for example, pair the male with 3 random co-dom females, hold back the best 5+ females and raise them up, then you'll have 5 clutches with possible clowns). Not only will you have more clowns, but you'll have the opportunity to have more variation in the type of clowns you have.

The value that recessive girls have to me is when you want to add other genes into your collection, it's nice to have a bunch of females.

I'm having trouble thinking of a reason that I would go recessive female though. Even if you buy a het clown to pair with the visual I'd still get a visual male. Visual male is like 400, pastel het clown females you could probably get for 100 each if you bought multiples. So for 700 you could get 3 chances to make visuals your first year. Where as if you bought a female visual (figure 600) and a pastel het clown (~100), you're still spending the same amount, for the same odds, but for less clutches.

[Eric Alan]

I'm having trouble thinking of a reason that I would go recessive female though.

In your collection, this may be true. You're assuming that the OP is in a similar situation and has breeder-size females waiting and ready to go. Preferably, these big girls would be virgins to avoid the possibility of retained sperm and having them produce hets that aren't actually hets. If these ladies are available, then a visual male can make sense as well. If not, then having a visual female in the rack right out of the gate to grow up in a small collection makes all the sense in the world.

Plus, there's a ton of benefit having a picture of a nice big visual recessive female sitting on eggs when it comes to selling hets - especially to a newer breeder without a foot in the door.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

The fact that you mention only one visual than I would have to go with female, if it had been several hets and one visual I would have say male obviously.

[Morke]

I was wondering this same thing since I wanted to get some clowns. I figured I was looking at ~400 for a male and like 600 for a female, so I ended up with hets so I had a better chance and it'll always be nice to have het clown females.

But your main question was male or female homozygous, and while everyone else is saying go for female, I would say go for male (for the reason mdb730 said). I'm not sure why female would be better other than they hold their value better, which is true but I don't think is really that important. I looked at the two options and tried to guess what would be my quickest route to making my own visuals. Let's say you're starting with plain clowns and trying to get pastels:

Clown female you would get and raise up 2 years (assuming she eats well and is ready), pair with pastel male (I'd personally round up more money to get more genes in the male and try to make as many nice hets as possible with as few normal hets). So first clutch is half pastel het clown, half het clown. Hopefully you'd get a pastel het clown male to pair back to his mom the next year, (assuming she eats well and is at least back up to her old breeding weight) and then you'll get half the clutch clowns with half of those being pastel. So a 1/4 chance at a pastel clown about 3 years (pretty optimistic timeline).

Now a clown male, I'd raise him up (assuming he eats well enough and would be ready in a year) and pair with multiple females (assuming you have them already). I'd make as many nice het clowns as I could and keep the best females. Raise them up (2 years) and put their dad with them to make a bunch of different clowns at the same chance as above.

To me the male is the better choice, it's easier to get a male up to size and breeding than it is to get a female up to size and hope that she ovulates. Worst case scenario for the male is he isn't interested in females, which you can pair him with more females or put another male's shed in with them, or if you have a smaller male you can put him in with that one to get him more interested. Of course it's not guaranteed, but you have more options and more likelyhood of sucess. But with the female, you could pair her and see locks every single time and she still might not ovulate, or she does ovulate and slugs out or only has 1-2 good eggs. With the female you're looking at 2 seasons to get 2 clutches where the last clutch is the only one that might have clowns. But with the male you'd be looking at 2 seasons to get multiple clutches that can have clowns (for example, pair the male with 3 random co-dom females, hold back the best 5+ females and raise them up, then you'll have 5 clutches with possible clowns). Not only will you have more clowns, but you'll have the opportunity to have more variation in the type of clowns you have.

The value that recessive girls have to me is when you want to add other genes into your collection, it's nice to have a bunch of females.

I'm having trouble thinking of a reason that I would go recessive female though. Even if you buy a het clown to pair with the visual I'd still get a visual male. Visual male is like 400, pastel het clown females you could probably get for 100 each if you bought multiples. So for 700 you could get 3 chances to make visuals your first year. Where as if you bought a female visual (figure 600) and a pastel het clown (~100), you're still spending the same amount, for the same odds, but for less clutches.

Thank you all for your answer.

I was thinking a male is the best option because of the same reasoning bks2100 was explaining, but I wanted to hear all the opinions out there
My situation is like this:
I have 3 adult normal females (2kg each) and 3 adult males (YB, Blonde, Mojave) plus a 1 year fire male and a 2 months spider female.
So I guess the clown male is the best option, right?

[Eric Alan]

I'd still go with a visual female to grow up, but to each their own. My logic is this: You have to grow up a female anyway, so why not start now with a visual while you can? You can always buy a male for cheaper in a year or two when your female is ready.